Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Entity questions  (Read 1015 times)

nothingSpecial

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Entity questions
« on: August 10, 2013, 10:12:05 am »

Hi guys.
I have several questions about entity, position and caste tokens

Some introductory words: I'm making yet another useless Homestuck trolls civilization mod (by the way, thanks to billybobfred for publishing his raws - I can't really get all the tissue thing yet - and Putnam for his FortBend and troll language file).
And I'm trying to make their society as close to the canonically depicted as possible.

So,

I have 23 castes for different bloodcolors and sexes. Both leadership positions - her imperious condescension and heiress - are only allowed for one and third the most rarest caste - fuchsia-blooded female seadweller trolls (in fact not only for them, but now we're not talking about non-troll heirs).

1. What tokens should I use to make both of them come to player's fortress once it met kingdom-arrival conditions if that is possible? And can I change those conditions?
2. Their death ratio now satisfies me (heiresses die abouts twice more often than condescensions) but can I somehow make heiresses be more participating in wars during worldgen (and so more often dying) without making them, erm, more leader than condescebsions? Not only that but what do [MILITARY_GOALS] and [MILITARY STRATEGY] tokens do?
2.a. Maybe I can change caste-specified personality traits and then remove [PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION] tag (not like it really works now) to make them executed by authority?
3. Can I make somehow all members of the caste be noble? I tried to change heiresses' number to [NUMBER:100] and ended up with 88 heiresses and no condescencions. And seadweller or blueblood farmers really bother me. What certain effect do [NUMBER:AS_NEEDED] token have in worldgen and adventurer's mode and can it make that?
4. Can I use [EXECUTION_SKILL] token to make half-military-half-law-enforcing squad leader to use certain weapon not only for executions but also for combat? For example, can I make treshecutioner captain position using sword skill and sickle weapon with that skill with squad of ten treshecutioners?
5. Can I have more than one caste with [EXECUTION] responsibility without problems? And the same question for other responsibilities.
6. How do exactly [CONQUERED_SITE] token works? Does it make conquerer civ's position in conquered civ's site (i.e. if I declare troll's entity position "subjugglator" with that token, it will pop up at human town conquered by trolls) or vice versa?
7. Can two positions with the same name (but different [POSITION:whatever]) have a conflict? Not like I really think so, but why not ask for certainty.
8. At this moment during test worldgens troll civilizations are often at war with dwarves, humans and elves. It's gonna be perfect after I'll be able to make them more competitive but now the rate of extinct troll civs are to high (there can be three generated troll civs and all completely wiped out right before the end of worldgen). What ethics should I use to preserve civ-flavour (acceptable slavery, murders and cannibalism) without enraging all three "good" vanilla civs?
8.a. And what can I do to make trolls more dominating?
9. [FRIENDLY_COLOR] seems to not work as it explained on wiki. What exactly it's effects?
10. Can I have non-intelligent castes for civ? If yes, can non-intelligent castes reproduce without marriage? Can I make caste sterile but still not genderless and participating in romance? Can I make reproduction not vanilla (male-needed-female-give-birth-or-lay-eggs) but custom (loving pairs making... fancy stuff (buckets, meh) and then that stuff is used with other creature to make children) and still not having civilization extinct in first fifty years or so?
11. Can I somehow prohibit some skills for caste for experience gain and for embark screen to effectively ban high castes from peasantry jobs?

And here go raws. They are based on billybobfred's raws and have minor changes (mostly in personality and color names and age and attributes). Posting only creature and entity raws cause other are not so important for my questions, as I think. Entity is very basic right now - I can't really choose which positions would be landholders and which responsibilities and caste specific would have Grand Highblood position so right now you can see there old identifiers and other stuff.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPD

There less contact area edged weapon with piercing attack have, the more lethal it is, am I right? Because I want to make trident weapon deadlier than pike but, you know, three points are three time bigger than one.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 10:43:00 am by nothingSpecial »
Logged

nothingSpecial

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Entity questions
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2013, 10:12:55 am »

Here goes entity raw.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 10:17:20 am by nothingSpecial »
Logged

nothingSpecial

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Entity questions
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2013, 10:13:24 am »

Here goes creature raw.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 10:16:58 am by nothingSpecial »
Logged

Hugo_The_Dwarf

  • Bay Watcher
  • Modding Mentor
    • View Profile
    • Regeneration: Forced Evolution
Re: Entity questions
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2013, 01:33:53 pm »

1. What tokens should I use to make both of them come to player's fortress once it met kingdom-arrival conditions if that is possible? And can I change those conditions?
2. Their death ratio now satisfies me (heiresses die abouts twice more often than condescensions) but can I somehow make heiresses be more participating in wars during worldgen (and so more often dying) without making them, erm, more leader than condescebsions? Not only that but what do [MILITARY_GOALS] and [MILITARY STRATEGY] tokens do?
2.a. Maybe I can change caste-specified personality traits and then remove [PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION] tag (not like it really works now) to make them executed by authority?
3. Can I make somehow all members of the caste be noble? I tried to change heiresses' number to [NUMBER:100] and ended up with 88 heiresses and no condescencions. And seadweller or blueblood farmers really bother me. What certain effect do [NUMBER:AS_NEEDED] token have in worldgen and adventurer's mode and can it make that?
4. Can I use [EXECUTION_SKILL] token to make half-military-half-law-enforcing squad leader to use certain weapon not only for executions but also for combat? For example, can I make treshecutioner captain position using sword skill and sickle weapon with that skill with squad of ten treshecutioners?
5. Can I have more than one caste with [EXECUTION] responsibility without problems? And the same question for other responsibilities.
6. How do exactly [CONQUERED_SITE] token works? Does it make conquerer civ's position in conquered civ's site (i.e. if I declare troll's entity position "subjugglator" with that token, it will pop up at human town conquered by trolls) or vice versa?
7. Can two positions with the same name (but different [POSITION:whatever]) have a conflict? Not like I really think so, but why not ask for certainty.
8. At this moment during test worldgens troll civilizations are often at war with dwarves, humans and elves. It's gonna be perfect after I'll be able to make them more competitive but now the rate of extinct troll civs are to high (there can be three generated troll civs and all completely wiped out right before the end of worldgen). What ethics should I use to preserve civ-flavour (acceptable slavery, murders and cannibalism) without enraging all three "good" vanilla civs?
8.a. And what can I do to make trolls more dominating?
9. [FRIENDLY_COLOR] seems to not work as it explained on wiki. What exactly it's effects?
10. Can I have non-intelligent castes for civ? If yes, can non-intelligent castes reproduce without marriage? Can I make caste sterile but still not genderless and participating in romance? Can I make reproduction not vanilla (male-needed-female-give-birth-or-lay-eggs) but custom (loving pairs making... fancy stuff (buckets, meh) and then that stuff is used with other creature to make children) and still not having civilization extinct in first fifty years or so?
11. Can I somehow prohibit some skills for caste for experience gain and for embark screen to effectively ban high castes from peasantry jobs?

Alright im gonna try my best, Putnam or another modder that knows fortbent/homestuck/trolls better then I can come alone and correct or answer things I miss.

1. Make them strictly nobles, look at DUKE, BARON, COUNT, and MONARCH in the MOUNTAIN entity in entity_default.txt (and yes you can change the condiditons with LAND_HOLDER tokens that are displayed above the positions in MOUNTAIN)

2. I *think* (don't take this to heart, just consideration) that MILITARY_GOALS are swayed by this position (king doesn't like someone, army is more interested in killing them and taking their lands) MILITARY_STRATEGY as per wiki suggests the position will go off and tame exotic beasts (for that military advantage on the field by riding one?)

2.a. -Cannot Answer Correctly Skipping-

3. to make them noble only give them a CREATURE_CLASS:NOBLE (or whatever BLUE_NOBLE?) then have the position in the entity [ALLOWED_CLASS:xxxx]
- If you wish for these castes not to do certain jobs give them [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:<skill_token>:0] thus they never learn it, and can't get the job

4. Probably just add [SQUAD:#:single:plural] the leader will do EXECUTIONS when is requested.

5. Like above probably, idk how they will dally out the work orders.

6. I think that is how it works. Can look at Advisers in MOUNTAIN they have that tag

7. Nope just as long as the POSITION:ID is unique should be fine. Just looks weird if one is the doctor and the other is the broker, who's who?

8. only reason they get wiped out is yes, all the civs will beat up on them, same with goblins, cause no one likes baby snatchers. You'd have to look at each entity and see what why find good and evil then adjust to suit all their needs.

8.a. like just own the other races? natural combat skills, bigger size, more birth rate, lower CHILD

9. -Not sure, Skipped-

10. Yes they work, if they lack any intelligent speech they are automatically hostile to everyone. and you need a Male and Female to allow reproduction.

11. Mentioned this in #3

Logged

nothingSpecial

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Entity questions
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2013, 03:17:18 pm »

Oh. Thank you, sure, but I should have mentioned thar I've read this subforum read-only, studied wiki and tried modding civs before so basics of entity organisation are comprehensible for me.
Quote
Make them strictly nobles, look at DUKE, BARON, COUNT, and MONARCH in the MOUNTAIN entity in entity_default.txt (and yes you can change the condiditons with LAND_HOLDER tokens that are displayed above the positions in MOUNTAIN)
IIRC, in 0.34.11 baron is appointed. Not like I've ever got baron before death by FPS. So they wouldn't come from outside, right? And I copied KING's tokens to both empress and heiress but then cut out some from heiress.
Quote
I *think* (don't take this to heart, just consideration) that MILITARY_GOALS are swayed by this position (king doesn't like someone, army is more interested in killing them and taking their lands) MILITARY_STRATEGY as per wiki suggests the position will go off and tame exotic beasts (for that military advantage on the field by riding one?)
Well, that wouldn't help me if that's how it works.
Quote
to make them noble only give them a CREATURE_CLASS:NOBLE (or whatever BLUE_NOBLE?) then have the position in the entity [ALLOWED_CLASS:xxxx]
Well, will it make all of them appointed to that noble position? Now it implemented via creature caste (and not ALLOWED but other castes REJECTED) and that works in other way - every noble is highblood bod not every highblood is noble. I'll try classes, though.
Quote
Probably just add [SQUAD:#:single:plural] the leader will do EXECUTIONS when is requested.
Okay, tomorrow I'll try to test it.
Quote
I think that is how it works. Can look at Advisers in MOUNTAIN they have that tag
That's good. In fact, all that I need is catch conquered site and look at noble there but I'm not lucky with conquering and not wiping wars.
Quote
Nope just as long as the POSITION:ID is unique should be fine. Just looks weird if one is the doctor and the other is the broker, who's who?
That isn't the case and doctor would be distinguishable from broker, sheriff, manager etc. Positions with the same name would be not of useful nobles. One of them is conquered governor - and player will meet this noble in Adventure mode - and other is very demandy and very easily enraged nobles. There should be no confusion and it's purely for flavour.
Quote
only reason they get wiped out is yes, all the civs will beat up on them, same with goblins, cause no one likes baby snatchers. You'd have to look at each entity and see what why find good and evil then adjust to suit all their needs.
Well hell. Okay, I'll just tone their trollishness a bit down for social-structer-designing time and after all nobles would be on their places I'll fix it.
Quote
like just own the other races? natural combat skills, bigger size, more birth rate, lower CHILD
That could be a good idea if majority of race shouldn't be quite submissive and enslaved. But birthrate and younger adulthood can surely help, thanks.
Quote
Yes they work, if they lack any intelligent speech they are automatically hostile to everyone.
That's kinda bad. It's not funny if your animaldad is killing you for nothing.
Quote
and you need a Male and Female to allow reproduction.
I know, but do I also need properly working childbirth? Currently trolls are reproducing by laying egs but that's not the case in canon, and there "real" loving couple of parents never sees knows who are their children. I'd like to implement it via once rare caste bringing dozens of children and other are completely sterile but on wiki STERILE is in interaction, not creatures. Also I cannot make custom workshop which is using animals?
Quote
Mentioned this in #3
Quote
- If you wish for these castes not to do certain jobs give them [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:<skill_token>:0] thus they never learn it, and can't get the job
If it works with embarking too than it's great, thanks.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 03:24:53 pm by nothingSpecial »
Logged

Putnam

  • Bay Watcher
  • DAT WIZARD
    • View Profile
Re: Entity questions
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2013, 03:38:27 am »

mhmhmhm

anyway
FIRST SET
2.a. Nah, not really.

9. It changes what the color of the creature's sites on the world map are.

SECOND SET
1. Barons are appointed in-fort.

3. No.  I would have higher-blooded trolls have no ability to learn the skills you don't want them to have for that.


Di

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Entity questions
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 06:49:44 am »

Quote
Yes they work, if they lack any intelligent speech they are automatically hostile to everyone.
That's kinda bad. It's not funny if your animaldad is killing you for nothing.
He actually meant that if all creatures in a civ lack [intelligent] or [can_speak] then the civ will be at war with everyone.
And you need animalmums, intelligent females won't mate (or whatever it's called for spore-breeding animals) without marriage.
And you can assign them labours via therapist or manipulator. (I've actually tried that in previous version only)

Quote
and you need a Male and Female to allow reproduction.
I know, but do I also need properly working childbirth? Currently trolls are reproducing by laying egs but that's not the case in canon, and there "real" loving couple of parents never sees knows who are their children. I'd like to implement it via once rare caste bringing dozens of children and other are completely sterile but on wiki STERILE is in interaction, not creatures. Also I cannot make custom workshop which is using animals? [/quote]
Guess best bet here would be making extremely rare caste which birth bazillion of kids but would die if appears in fortress. (Because of being GRAZER:1 or SPECIFIC_FOOD:something rare or present in raws only, or AQUATIC, or CRAZED an so on)
In a fort mode you can transform animals or even use raised bodyparts but that'll cause a great weirdness. See LFR or other major mods for examples.
Logged
Quote from: Creamcorn
Dwarf Fortress: Where you meet the limit of your imagination, moral compass, sanity and CPU processor.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=103080.0 Fix sober vampires!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91442.0 Dwarven Cognitive Science

nothingSpecial

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Entity questions
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2013, 01:01:10 pm »

Quote
2.a. Nah, not really.
Too bad.
Quote
It changes what the color of the creature's sites on the world map are.
But not during worldgen?
Seems that it doesnt't work there. Or, maybe, cities are hardcoded and, for instance, mountainhomes would be coloured? 'Cause now the most important for me is to know - should I accept - or reject due to lack of survivng troll civs - world for testing purposes.
Quote
1. Barons are appointed in-fort.
Thanks. As I thought - and so my first question is still on the agenda: which token make noble immigrate to player's fort.

Quote
3. No.  I would have higher-blooded trolls have no ability to learn the skills you don't want them to have for that.
I've thought about that. They can always be arhhitects or mechanics or something.

Quote
He actually meant that if all creatures in a civ lack [intelligent] or [can_speak] then the civ will be at war with everyone.
Oh. I know that.
Quote
And you need animalmums, intelligent females won't mate (or whatever it's called for spore-breeding animals) without marriage.
That's what I planned to ask later. And that's good - if unintelligent females won't breed without unintelligent males too.
Quote
Guess best bet here would be making extremely rare caste which birth bazillion of kids but would die if appears in fortress.
I don't actually need them dying! If player don't want to have instant FPS-death, they can just turn of birthrate in inint.

Thanks.
Logged