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Author Topic: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)  (Read 49793 times)

Sonlirain

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #255 on: November 16, 2013, 11:10:39 am »

Noone wanted 100% realism in the first place but some people would like a space game where space behaves like... well... space.
Right now you could mess the backgrounds a bit and the game could take place underwater.
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alway

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #256 on: November 16, 2013, 11:46:06 am »

No one wants realistic space battles. They consist of two ships hundreds of km apart firing lasers at one another, controlled entirely by computer, in hopes that they melt a small hole in the other's hull. The battle concludes while they are still too far apart to see with the naked eye, and with no outward visuals to tell a battle was even taking place.

This is also generally how modern fighter jets engage one another. However, if you play games like Battlefield 4, it's all WW2 fighter planes with modern skins. Get up on the other's tail, and shoot them with guns. Because modern fighter jet battles are generally boring. And very mechanized. And very unfair. Skill means nothing when you've got a missile coming in at Mach 4. It's all a question of whether the jet has adequate countermeasures.

The problem is, it all becomes too contradictory if you add in just one element (newtonian velocity) while ignoring the rest. Space WW2 dogfights with newtonian velocity are no less silly than space WW2 dogfights with non-newtonian velocity, and is little more than "now you can't easily control your WW2 fighter."
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forsaken1111

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #257 on: November 16, 2013, 11:51:29 am »

Exactly. If you're going newtonian physics then you should go that direction fully. No slow-moving 'laser' weapons. Any weapon that isn't hitscan is going to be pretty much useless and aiming will be done by computer at ranges beyond visual. You won't have twitch-based combat in a game that uses realistic physics.

This is a game. They wanted 'wing commander' style twitch combat so they made a game engine to work that way.
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jhxmt

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #258 on: November 16, 2013, 12:35:11 pm »

I mean, the gameplay seems to have some depth beneath it, but it's an HCI nightmare. I would be fine with the first person perspective, just as I was in X3, except for the fact that you can't see anything because the useless cockpit HUD takes up half your FOV. The HUD is terrible, and due to the tiny size of semi-transparent and rapidly moving icons, gives almost no information. The poor FOV combines with the delayed turning, lack of usable 3D indicators, and complete lack of ability to move other than forward (aside from a token gesture from maneuvering thrusters) results in a terrible spinning around constantly to try and find what you're looking for. Not only does this become disorienting really fast, but due to the terrible graphics and clutter, it becomes nauseating.

I fully agree on the HCI interface point.  Flight combat is incredibly frustrating due to a lack of easy targeting (there are no targeting key commands - not even 'target the thing under my crosshairs' or 'target nearest enemy' - you have to click on the inevitably fast moving enemy to target it) and a lack of useful information (other than very basic HUD indicators, there's no way to tell where an enemy actually is - there's no radar/gravidar map visible while flying).

I've posted some suggestions on the Egosoft forums (link), but the interface issues go much deeper than just that.

From what I can see from my ~12 hours of play, there's no way to give a command to a trade ship you own unless it's in your squad - and all ships in your squad follow you.  This means that remote trading is effectively a no-no - you have to physically travel, yourself, to initiate a trade.  I believe the idea is that you will be able to do this remotely (i.e. initiate the trade deal), but it seems that it still only works for freighters in your squad.  So I may well be able to start a 'buy 1000 energy cells here' deal from halfway across the galaxy...but all the ships that can then act on that deal will already be with me, so will have to travel half the galaxy to do it anyway!  As one commentator said, it feels like freight ships are more like glorified backpacks in this incarnation.

You don't appear to be able to give orders directly to your ships.  At all, as far as I can see.  For what is effectively a command-and-control simulator game, this is rather shocking.

There is no autopilot.  If you're not flying the ship, it's not moving.  Your co-pilot appears to be plot-fodder rather than of any use.

The first time my ship got attacked while I was walking around a station, I thought it was thrilling.  Then I found myself aboard a ship with no weapons (destroyed), no shield (damaged) and a crippled engine...all because my co-pilot had simply sat there and been shot at, rather than e.g. evading attack.  I do wonder if this is a bug, rather than a design choice - I'd assumed when I was docked, I was safe, as when on foot you can see your ship settled in the hangar!

Overall: I really wanted to love the game.  I love bits of it.  I love what I've seen of the universe.  I love the space graphics.  I even love some of Egosoft's humorous touches (there are three seashells in the toilet cubicles).  And I know it's an Egosoft game, and that patches will transform this thing.

I just worry that it's too big a transformation.  I worry that they've ultimately crippled it.  :-\
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Chattox

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #259 on: November 16, 2013, 12:49:40 pm »

the game could take place underwater.

That... would be cool.
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Mookzen

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #260 on: November 16, 2013, 12:52:20 pm »

Inertial dampeners.
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alway

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #261 on: November 16, 2013, 12:55:54 pm »

Yeah, bugs, graphical glitches and slowdowns can be fixed with patches.

But at this point, major game components need to be entirely re-done from the ground up.
Spoiler: what I see (click to show/hide)

And the worst thing about that mentally-challenges co-pilot: she's there even if you skipped the tutorial campaign. Complete with her terribad voice acting and even worse 3d model graphics. Half Life 2's Alex Vance looked better than that almost a decade ago. Hell, even the MC has abysmal voice acting.
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Sonlirain

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #262 on: November 16, 2013, 01:17:08 pm »

Well i'm still quite sure this is "Beyond the Frontier II" of the series with much more emphasis on the story and sooner or later you will get the option to pick your start when "eXtension II" comes around.

The cockpit taking around 1/3'rd of the screen should be on a toggle so people can have it or not.

the game could take place underwater.

That... would be cool.

There are games a bit like that but none of them are as open as X.
Subculture and its sequel Deep Fighter come to mind (check them out on youtube)
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xaritscin

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #263 on: November 16, 2013, 01:19:06 pm »

for the space fluid/non newtonian stuff:


EVE Online is submarines in space actually, and the thing about realistic combat is actually there too, even the smallest ship has to kill enemies several kilometers aparte e.e
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Darkmere

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #264 on: November 16, 2013, 01:40:09 pm »

Phew, good thing I had too little money to justify a pre-order. Sad, I was really excited for it too but I'll wait for it to be fixed or buy it if there's an awesome holiday sale.

Yeah from what I'm hearing I'm glad I skipped it too. Maybe next year. Maybe.
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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #265 on: November 16, 2013, 02:04:51 pm »

Still having a blast. Currently ahead of 98.3% of players according to Steam achievements. :)
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Gabeux

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #266 on: November 16, 2013, 03:03:02 pm »

Guess I'll wait for Afterbirth

Afterbirth: The Reinvasion of the Xenon Reterraformers.

After reading about the game, I completely lost my interest in it. But I knew they would either hit it spot on, 11/10, OR what's happening would happen: everyone wanting to love it but just giving up due to the rather big list of let-downs.

I don't understand, they made a good amount of X games already. At least the fleet management, economy and interface should be done right by this point, right? (since space-combat is a more complex subject)

And building stations.. they really "fixed" station building by allowing you to build only on specific spots? -.-
Also, the terrible voice acting that people have mocked along the years. I guess at least that could have been improved.

What frustrastes me the most is that I love the X games (I had such an amazing trading fleet and even secret drug-producing stations in X3:AP), but they always obviously needed improvements that never came. And still have not come. It makes me sad.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 03:06:29 pm by Gabeux »
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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #267 on: November 16, 2013, 05:32:29 pm »

Well, the voice acting will probably never get better as it is a German company.
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xaritscin

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #268 on: November 16, 2013, 05:54:11 pm »

Well, the voice acting will probably never get better as it is a German company.

there should be a meme comparing it with skyrim's voice acting....... note that i've only seen gameplay videos, im waiting for those fixes.

now that i see it, X:Rebirth and TES: Skyrim have several things in common.....
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sluissa

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Re: X-Rebirth - It's really happening (NOV 15)
« Reply #269 on: November 16, 2013, 06:06:53 pm »

They don't really understand WHY people like the series and don't understand their own strengths and weaknesses. They've gotten so used to being the only real contender in the genre that they've never had to change or adapt their game. they just added more and more polish to the same old system ever since xtension. Now they're trying to do something new and not realizing that everyone sorta hated the parts of their games they're trying to emphasize now. People want an economic sandbox out of egosoft, not some sort of poorly created space opera.
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