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Author Topic: Order of the Stick  (Read 575653 times)

MorleyDev

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4215 on: April 24, 2021, 04:32:17 pm »

Well I mean, in the OOTS universe isn't it a literal truth that a paladin of a Lawful Good god can, without any other reason than 'goblin evil, I smash', march into a village of Goblins and just start slaughtering them, even children, and not lose their Paladin powers? Because Goblins are born flagged as "Evil"? Didn't 'Start of Darkness' have a bunch of Paladins doing basically that?

It's the "Orc Babies" problem, if your dungeon diving in DnD and you encounter an orc nursery, do you kill the babies because they're Always Evil and your character sheet clearly says "Lawful Good" and since it says so that means they should obviously die? Or is that abhorrent because they're friggin' babies with souls and lives and decisions? OOTS-verse is one where the gods gave the answer as: a Paladin can kill the orc babies and not fall.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 04:37:43 pm by MorleyDev »
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Akura

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4216 on: April 24, 2021, 05:15:42 pm »

Well I mean, in the OOTS universe isn't it a literal truth that a paladin of a Lawful Good god can, without any other reason than 'goblin evil, I smash', march into a village of Goblins and just start slaughtering them, even children, and not lose their Paladin powers? Because Goblins are born flagged as "Evil"? Didn't 'Start of Darkness' have a bunch of Paladins doing basically that?

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Mathel

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4217 on: April 25, 2021, 01:54:10 am »

Why are there even "good" and "evil" gods in the same group anyway? Surely good gods can't demand all evil being destroyed if they are willing to have evil gods as their allies.

Game setup is up to the gods.
The gods put each group of creatures somewhere and gave them starting knowledge and materials. They made goblinoids look significantly different from other sentient races, put them in poorer area and gave them shorter lifespan but increased reproduction rate.

What the people did with it is in their own hands.
The other races started being racist to goblinoids and left them with no option other than to raid them.


But the world has been running for over a thousand years. The real question is, why is this the first time goblinoids conquered a place? Why didn't ever before several groups of goblinoids banded together, overrun an isolated human country, and establish their own? Or how come no orc or goblin ever proved themselves as a good person, been granted a title and allowed goblinoids to settle in better lands?

There were a thousand years for a country of goblinoids to be created. They have weapons they have knowledge. Not all the fault can be attributed to the gods. Much goes to mortals. Mostly to humanoids, for being so racist, that they would never allow goblinoids to prove themselves. And probably, had they ever conquered anything, humanoids attacked them constantly, until they were destroyed.

But I also have to wonder if goblinoids ever tried diplomacy. Perhaps they did, and were refused. Perhaps they did not, and only ever tried war.
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MorleyDev

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4218 on: April 25, 2021, 06:55:28 am »

Remember, goblins are listed as "usually neutral evil" in their stat block. Not "always evil". Orcs, by the way, are "often chaotic evil", not "always chaotic evil".

Were they listed as that prior to the version update? I know in older versions of DnD the "often/always" text wasn't present, which led to the orc babies problem above, but was relaxed in later editions. But I'm not sure what version they started doing that for.
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Akura

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4219 on: April 25, 2021, 11:39:49 am »

Remember, goblins are listed as "usually neutral evil" in their stat block. Not "always evil". Orcs, by the way, are "often chaotic evil", not "always chaotic evil".

Were they listed as that prior to the version update? I know in older versions of DnD the "often/always" text wasn't present, which led to the orc babies problem above, but was relaxed in later editions. But I'm not sure what version they started doing that for.

I was reading from the 3.5 edition SRD - the comic uses (heavily modified) 3.5 edition rules. I think there was a mention at some point in the comic that OotS goblins are not "always evil" as well.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4220 on: April 25, 2021, 12:29:37 pm »

The other thing is that only "Always X" alignments are inherent to the creature (and even they aren't absolute - just that a variance is exceptionally rare). "Always" and "Often" are either cultural or a "some aspects of the way this species acts are more suited for this alignement, such as orcs being more aggressive" situation.


Like much with alignment, the modifiers don't exactly mean what they say.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4221 on: April 25, 2021, 12:43:50 pm »

I wonder if DF goblins would count as "always chaotic evil". They have iirc 50-75-100 Cruelty where humans and such get 0-50-100, so it's an aspect of their species.
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martinuzz

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4222 on: April 25, 2021, 01:05:54 pm »

Between dwarves drowning the world in magma, and elves being psychotic cannibals, I'd say DF goblins are lawful good.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4223 on: April 25, 2021, 01:15:37 pm »

Dwarves are very much good according to raws, players just make them do objectionable things for fun. Elves are sort of hard to categorize on that scale, which is good. Elves should be weird.
But goblins aren't totally defined by being in conflict with the others, so even if you think that dwarves are evil, that doesn't make goblins good for fighting with them. They're still innately cruel and acceptant, they still generally have a demon in charge, they still have slaves, they still live in literally the evil biome, their ethics are still mostly "acceptable" or "personal matter"...
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Enemy post

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4224 on: April 30, 2021, 04:43:31 pm »

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Egan_BW

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4225 on: April 30, 2021, 04:49:11 pm »

Talky man talk not enough.
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Kagus

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4226 on: April 30, 2021, 06:04:27 pm »

So, even his thoughts have an accent. Fun.

But writing it as "l'il" is throwing me for a loop.

scriver

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4227 on: April 30, 2021, 06:28:30 pm »

l'oo%
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Sergius

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4228 on: May 08, 2021, 05:47:43 pm »

I'm all about goblins getting a fair chance, but please don't turn into the Goblins comic, that one's terrible.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4229 on: May 10, 2021, 04:33:02 am »

but I'm saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadened by my sooooooooooocioeconomic condiiiiiiiiiiiiiitions
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