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[JoshuaFH]

Shoulda convinced Elan to come with him, charisma is definitely the stat you want in a negotiation.

[MagmaMcFry]

I'm still holding out for Banjo.

[hops]

Implosion seems like a pretty nasty spell to be caught off-guard with, so I'm gonna laugh if Durkon dies again, to a cleric he was politely chatting with no less.

[Akura]

Implosion seems like a pretty nasty spell to be caught off-guard with, so I'm gonna laugh if Durkon dies again, to a cleric he was politely chatting with no less.

I'd give Durkon a 2/3 chance of surviving it, actually. Given what I've seen of Redcloak, I'd say his Wisdom score would be the absolute minimum for casting 9th-level spells, assuming that Implosion isn't his 9th-level domain spell(it is for the Destruction domain, assuming Redcloak has that domain) and also assuming that domain spell are exempted from ability score requirements(the SRD isn't clear on that one, so I don't know).

Assuming the minimum Wisdom to cast Implosion, then it would have a minimum save of 23(10 + 9th-level + +4 WIS bonus). A Fortitude save negates the effect and Implosion can only target a creature once per cast. Durkon is a Dwarf Cleric. His Cleric levels would give him either a +9 or +10(depends on how far his two recent resurrections have lowered his level). And as a Dwarf, he has a +2 to Constitution(and it's probably fairly high as well), and a racial +2 to saves vs spells. At an absolute minimum, he'd save on a roll of 11, but that's assuming a base CON of 10(12 because Dwarf), and ignoring the possibility of any magical items or effects he might have affecting him. At this point in the adventure, it might be good to assume both a higher Constitution and that he did buff himself up in case Redcloak tried to gank him, hence why I'm giving him better odds.


People on the GitP forums have noted that Durkon should still be under the effects of Wind Walk and that if he were in cloud form he'd be immune to Implosion... except that he's in solid form and it takes 5 rounds to change form and Implosion is an instantaneous effect.

[Rolan7]

I assumed that the visual effect indicated he failed the save. This is a pretty old and jokey example but eh, it's funny and topical: https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html

Durkon probably had pretty good odds though yeah. Being caught by surprise doesn't matter either, he just got unlucky (if I'm right).

[Egan_BW]

If it's going to kill him though, this is a strange place to put the page break. It would make more sense for the last panel to be of him exploding. (He's not dead yet, no xed-out eyes.)
So presumably something is going to happen at the start of next page to change the situation. Maybe making his save, maybe going mist-form, maybe Minrah doing something.

[Lord Shonus]

Since the art upgrade, the Giant's mostly shown the effects of successful saves instead of just "made my saving throw" when possible. So it would be entirely reasonable to have the distortion begin and then show Durkon pushing it off.

[MrWiggles]

So assuming Durkon made the saving throw, I bet he just politely goes, "Well, I suppose the talks are concluded. I'll be going now."

[hops]

I mean, if it was me I'd just cut to the others in the next page just to fuck with the readers, then like an IRL month later go back to Durkon fighting a bunch of goblins.

[Rolan7]

I'm expecting a cut to frustrated Durkon in heaven again, or a cut to other characters then Durkon. I suspect we won't see the actual implosion.

Though maybe we do, and Redcloak uses the rest of the page to finally contact The Dark One about the offer. It's a good offer, maybe he just calculated that his safest response was to sideline Durkon for a bit while meeting his god.

It's not like Thor is going to retract the offer over yet another death, considering the supposed stakes, and Redcloak harbors a lot of hatred despite his rational demeanor.

[scriver]

Do a death during an argument count as dying in battle?

[Mathel]

If he dies, it would be by an attack from his enemy. I would not count it as battle, but rather assassination though.

[SOLDIER First]

Is there any death more honorable than that in the direct service of your god, delivering their literal message to its destination?

[lemon10]

Is there any death more honorable than that in the direct service of your god, delivering their literal message to its destination?

It isn't about honor, its about the technicalities of how you die, if you die with amazing honor peacefully in your bed... you go to hel.

If you die from an arrow in the skull after you broke into someones house and started murdering their puppies you would presumably go to valhalla.

Now, the technicalities are vague given that we see scenes of the gods arguing over who should go where, but both Thor and Hel have pretty reasonable arguments about where he should go based on the fact that an enemy killed him vs him not dying in actual battle.
Personally I would argue that Hel has a better claim, but I'm not sure how it will play out given neither Hel or Thor are going to be willing to give up on his soul.

[Rolan7]

The rules seem pretty weird but if Hilgya's ganking sent him back to heaven without a negotiation, I'm sure this does too.  Being flatfooted doesn't seem to be enough.

Unless the earlier case was only due to Hel's distraction, but I don't think that was set up.

Thor and Hel argued over souls here and here, but they seem more like gags than useful clarifications.  It seems weird that rebooting the world counts as "dishonorable death" for every dwarf regardless of what they're doing at the time, yet getting murdered during a marriage proposal is fine.  Maybe it really is a matter of Hel not paying attention.