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[IndigoFenix]

I just happened to watch The Rings of Akhaten a few weeks ago and I'm not sure if it made this scene better or ruined it entirely.  Oh well.

[Criptfeind]

A evil guy magically not understanding a (admittedly stupid even under that logic) benevolent decision just feels cheap. Cryptfiend, even if important people are more likely to afford diamonds, the fact that the OOTS didn't have any to rub together for a while kinda indicates this ain't a guarantee.

Nothing in life is a guarantee, but the reason they couldn't rez him wasn't the lack of diamonds, but rather because they didn't have access to his body, and Durkon isn't a high enough level caster to cast true resurrection. Despite living on a refugee ship set adrift in the sea looking after a fleet of refugees with presumably low supplies and lower hope, they managed to scrounge up a ton of diamonds. Which kinda indicates that it's not really that hard.

[JoshuaFH]

I don't think I like it much. It feels exactly like a deus ex machina or some kind of way out-there rules lawyering for drama's sake.

Hasn't pretty much every single conflict in the entire comic been resolved with the help of rule's lawyering?

[Criptfeind]

Durkon turning his vampire spirit into a copy of himself is like the opposite of rules lawyering, this isn't something that's within the scope of the rules of base D&D, if it was happening in a real game it'd be totally within the realm of either the narrative of the story and thus not touched by rules at all, or completely homebrew. In OotS it's something that happened because the narrative of the story needed it, with the homebrew explanation of it being some sorta rules based thing only existing lightly because that's one of the themes of the story being told, that they exist in a very gameified world. But don't get it wrong, it totally happened because it needed to happen for the story, not because it was the native consequence of a series of rules the writer had for the world. That's essentially the opposite of rules lawyering.

As for deus ex machina, I think that's a bit more a personal sorta feeling thing. For me, personally? It seemed like this was fairly built up, ever since we learned that Durkon still exists inside his own mind there was the possibility that he somehow regain control or at least distract the vampire at a critical moment, and once Durkon made the deal for one last vision it was pretty clear that this was going to be his big moment. And turning the vampire good (or shocking it emotionally for a big distraction) seemed in the cards since page 1126, 4 pages ago. (Although obviously that build up is easier to see in retrospect) This didn't come out of nowhere. The highest willpower character in the group, potentially in the setting, managed to overwhelm an evil presence in his mind with his willpower during a conversation they've been building up for a very long time. For me, that fails to make me think it's a deus ex machina, but your mileage may vary. It's not like he sat on a throne of alignment changing or something though.

[Darkmere]

I've had more time to think about it. Rules lawyering isn't exactly right, it's more like... forcing the conclusion you want by badgering the DM about flavor text. Vampires drink memories so it's kinda like water and humans drink water so they're kinda like vampires and if a human drinks too much water they die so if a vampire drinks too many memories they die right?

The Deux ex machina is because it broke my suspension of disbelief and doesn't feel satisfying. All of this only worked because it's extremely unusual circumstances with a wonky homebrew rule extrapolation that doesn't really make sense to me.

It's not like he sat on a throne of alignment changing or something though.

That helps... the evil negative energy being was transmuted into a lawful good spirit because Durkon is just that amazing and awesome wow. I understand the story is built on rule of cool and rule of narrative fueled by tropes and stuff, but this one just feels like a bridge too far for me, personally.

[Xantalos]

I will note that it does seem like Durkon's been planning this all the way since strip #963, where he had first the memory of him helping his mom with dishes and then the one of him 'helping' when Roy was getting eaten by a giant frog and seeing the connection between the two (that you sometimes don't need to ask to help somebody) while the vampire spirit didn't.

[Remalle]

On a tangentially related note, is it ever explained or handwaved why nobody knew how vampires work in universe? Surely somebody somewhere got resurrected after being vamped and told everyone how they were held hostage by an evil spirit in their own head. Is this just another instance of the party being ignorant in plot-critical lore?

[Egan_BW]

Probably mostly down to vampires being rare and hard to kill, so even if you run into one you probably won't be able to destroy it and attempt a raising. And even then, vampires are immortal so it's possible that the original owner of the body will be unable or unwilling to return.
So, surely someone out there knows how it works, but it's not exactly common lore.

[Lord Shonus]

On a tangentially related note, is it ever explained or handwaved why nobody knew how vampires work in universe? Surely somebody somewhere got resurrected after being vamped and told everyone how they were held hostage by an evil spirit in their own head. Is this just another instance of the party being ignorant in plot-critical lore?

Not nobody. At least one cleric in Gnometown knew, but was dominated into silence before she could fill Roy in.

[Akura]

Presumably, the host soul is rendered dormant during the 3-day incubation period. Durkon, and every vampire sired by him or his spawn, bypassed that incubation period, as the Giant explained, which caused a significant change in the vampire/host exchange. If the the host soul is made dormant, then they probably wouldn't be aware of what the vampire soul is doing. Instead, they'd probably think of their situation as if they were asleep should they be Resurrected afterwards. Given the rarity of Resurrection - it's not cheap, just that the OotS, a high-level adventuring party, is wealthy enough to afford it - very few vampires are ever Resurrected, so there's little data given, and the connection between a host soul being dormant rather than going to their afterlife, and the vampire being a separate soul controlling them is very unlikely to be ever made.

[Rolan7]

Huh, that's a good point too.

On a tangentially related note, is it ever explained or handwaved why nobody knew how vampires work in universe? Surely somebody somewhere got resurrected after being vamped and told everyone how they were held hostage by an evil spirit in their own head. Is this just another instance of the party being ignorant in plot-critical lore?

Not nobody. At least one cleric in Gnometown knew, but was dominated into silence before she could fill Roy in.

Thanks for pointing that one out, I didn't remember when it happened but it's a good point that *some* NPCs were capable of the knowledge check.  Just not many.

Probably mostly down to vampires being rare and hard to kill, so even if you run into one you probably won't be able to destroy it and attempt a raising. And even then, vampires are immortal so it's possible that the original owner of the body will be unable or unwilling to return.
So, surely someone out there knows how it works, but it's not exactly common lore.

Yeah, vampires seem to be rare in this setting.  Malack was likely the only notable one for a while, and he was unliving a patient, low-key existence. 

Arguably vampires are rare in most settings, really, but in this narrative they would have been mentioned earlier if they were widely known.

Also, resurrection is a 7th level spell (so level 13 characters up).  That doesn't sound like much, but the main characters tasked with saving the world are level ~15 or so.  The rarity of high level NPCs is an extremely steep curve, particularly in a campaign where the world might end.  Why doesn't Elminster fix everything?  He's busy/doesn't exist, nor anyone like him, it's up to you scrubs.

So the chances of the occasional vampire being slain, much less resurrected, are pretty slim.  If it happened, it might have been forgotten by all but the greatest clerics of the setting.

Sidenote:  I bet the lead host of the Godsmoot knew exactly what was happening as he died.

[hops]

On a tangentially related note, is it ever explained or handwaved why nobody knew how vampires work in universe? Surely somebody somewhere got resurrected after being vamped and told everyone how they were held hostage by an evil spirit in their own head. Is this just another instance of the party being ignorant in plot-critical lore?

Not nobody. At least one cleric in Gnometown knew, but was dominated into silence before she could fill Roy in.

Another reason why OOTS isn't actually a tabletop campaign: the DM's internal cackling would be so loud that the players can psychically sense it.

[FallacyofUrist]

So by the way there was an update. 1131, a heartfelt moment.

[Egan_BW]

It's better if we link these things.

[smjjames]

Would the party use True Resurrection? Though I've heard Rich Burlew despises the mechanic because he feels that it's too cheesy or something.

In a real tabletop game though, the party definetly likely would, unless the player wants to reroll. So, it's a matter of whether Rich feels it's right for the story.