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Author Topic: Order of the Stick  (Read 561189 times)

Trekkin

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2520 on: October 27, 2017, 11:45:03 am »

Maybe they do need some sort of deus ex machina, it's definetly setting up the stage for something.

And then the Mechane bursts through the wall, having been retrofit for subterrene travel offscreen.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2521 on: October 27, 2017, 11:46:27 am »

Energy drain is not dangerous when your enemies physically can't hit you.

Does anyone remember when they fought frost giants? Roy, Haley, and Belkar (Belkar especially, but Roy was fighting upgraded enemies and still doing well.) was dodging hits from enemies that completely outclass these vampires. Their damage output was pretty high as well.

It's the vampires that need a deus ex machina.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 11:50:58 am by Criptfeind »
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pikachu17

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2522 on: October 27, 2017, 01:18:43 pm »

I think, for purposes of drama, the heroes will survive this, but be heavily level drained. Or, for purposes of funny, they easily kill the vampire spawn, and ask "Why were we worrying about this?".

I forget, did the NPC tell us his/her name?
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smjjames

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2523 on: October 27, 2017, 01:34:28 pm »

How does level drain work anyway? Is it a permanent forever level drain or can you restore it in some fashion outside of grinding your way back?
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Criptfeind

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2524 on: October 27, 2017, 01:44:26 pm »

Level drain doesn't actually lower your level, at least, right away. At first it's a stackable debuff that gives -1 skill and ability checks, -1 attack roll and saving throws, -5 hp, -1 level to things that count levels like how many dice you get from your spells, loose your highest level prepared spell (picking if you have multiple.)

They can be cured in a lot of various ways, but if you fail to cure them within 24 hours you have to make a fort save, either way the negative level goes away, but if you fail the fort save then you loose an actual level.

Also if you get more negative levels then you have real levels you ded. Like so ded.
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Rolan7

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2525 on: October 27, 2017, 01:46:23 pm »

So dead you usually turn undead!  Depends on how you got them.
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smjjames

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2526 on: October 27, 2017, 02:03:12 pm »

So dead you usually turn undead!  Depends on how you got them.

I guess that's how wights (seen much earlier when Xykon was messing around in the remains of Azure city) work as far as turning undead.
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Mathel

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2527 on: October 27, 2017, 02:42:49 pm »

I think, for purposes of drama, the heroes will survive this, but be heavily level drained. Or, for purposes of funny, they easily kill the vampire spawn, and ask "Why were we worrying about this?".

I forget, did the NPC tell us his/her name?

She did not.

But on strip 1094, Tinna told the Order her name. The name of the NPC with the order is Minrah. She is also adressed as such by one of the vampires in the most recent strip (1103).
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smjjames

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2528 on: October 27, 2017, 02:46:52 pm »

I think, for purposes of drama, the heroes will survive this, but be heavily level drained. Or, for purposes of funny, they easily kill the vampire spawn, and ask "Why were we worrying about this?".

I forget, did the NPC tell us his/her name?

She did not.

But on strip 1094, Tinna told the Order her name. The name of the NPC with the order is Minrah. She is also adressed as such by one of the vampires in the most recent strip (1103).

And Roy addresses her by name in strip 1099.
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Culise

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2529 on: October 27, 2017, 03:14:22 pm »

So dead you usually turn undead!  Depends on how you got them.

I guess that's how wights (seen much earlier when Xykon was messing around in the remains of Azure city) work as far as turning undead.
Yep; if you run out of levels as a consequence of level drain, you die instantly: do not pass Go, do not roll saves.  Depending on how you lose the levels, you either get raised as the monster that killed you or if no monster is specified, a wight.  Though we're in the OOTS thread rather than the D&D thread, there's a really fun, albeit somewhat-questionable rules exploit around this as well: the Locate City Wight bomb, which is a variant of a standard Locate City bomb and a good way of causing a zombie apocalypse. 
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pikachu17

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2530 on: October 27, 2017, 03:28:10 pm »

But, doesn't Locate City target the city, not the people in it?
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2531 on: October 27, 2017, 03:29:08 pm »

I think the OOTS are worried about being stuck with a bunch of negative levels when they encounter the very dangerous high-level vampire clerics who may have mind-controlled large numbers of very important Good dwarves?
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Culise

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2532 on: October 27, 2017, 03:53:11 pm »

But, doesn't Locate City target the city, not the people in it?
It's a rather unfortunately-worded spell.  It doesn't actually target anything: it's an area effect spell that covers a circle (not a sphere) centered on the caster with radius of 10 miles per caster level, in addition to its range.  This combines with splatbook metamagic for serious shenanigans:
1. Apply Snowcasting (Frostburn, pg 50) to give it the Cold modifier.
2. With the Cold modifier, apply Flash Frost (PHB2, pg 91) so that it now deals 2 damage to all creatures in the area of effect and makes the area slippery
3. Due to having an energy descriptor from Step 1, the application of Energy Substitution (Electricity) (Complete Arcane, pg 79) now makes it deal Electricity damage.
4. The Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane, pg 76) converts half of that Electricity damage to Sonic damage, but also allows creatures affected a reflex save, which allows the entire reason for this roundabout method...
5. Explosive Spell (Complete Arcane, pg 79).  The spell now shunts all creatures that fail their reflex save outside of the area of effect...in other words, it throws them tens of miles in a single round.  Hilariously, Explosive Spell means that any creature moved this way takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet moved, and for those metric-folks, there are 5280 feet in a mile.  Someone who moves one mile takes 528d6+1(Elec)+1(Sonic) damage.  Someone who's right next to the caster will be a fine paste.  If you hit something between your starting point and the edge of the spell, that's another 1d6 damage.

It is suggested that the caster tether themselves to something sturdy before casting in case they fail their own Reflex save.

Primary cuts against this are either to rule that the circle effect of Locate City doesn't actually follow the surface of the plane you're on (with the side effect that Locate City no longer locates cities), that you can't stack metamagic effects that way (lopping this off at Step 2, typically, since unfortunately Snowcasting explicitly allows Cold-based metamagic to be applied), that you can't apply damage to a spell that does not already cause some sort of damage (handily also cutting the caster off from dealing damage to the inhabitants of small countries), or more amusingly, to rule that it works precisely as written...only it simply punts everyone in range up an inch because a Locate Spell acts on a circle and not a sphere or cylinder, and the shortest distance to its edge of effect is thus along its nonexistent third dimension.  A good way to give everyone in miles a kick in the rear and cause pratfalls, but not much else.

The counter to this last ruling was to replace steps 3-5 with Fell Drain (Libris Mortis, pg 27): one negative level to all living foes that take damage from your spell.  This causes every 1HD commoner in tens of miles that fails their saves to drop dead and, 24 hours later, revive as a wight.  Since wights create more wights by killing more people, hilarity ensues.

EDIT: Added splatbook sources and the actual damage potential this bomb has.  For the curious, Locate City is itself located in Races of Destiny, pg 166, and is a Level 1 spell. 

I think the OOTS are worried about being stuck with a bunch of negative levels when they encounter the very dangerous high-level vampire clerics who may have mind-controlled large numbers of very important Good dwarves?
That's personally my guess as well.  Durkon and company will presumably be a difficult fight for them as they are right now.  Stack on 3-6 negative levels per person on top of that, and the Order is going to be looking at a much nastier fight.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 04:17:40 pm by Culise »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2533 on: October 27, 2017, 05:00:44 pm »

which is where we get the idea of healing somebody by drowning them.

Is that the part because the first round they are drowning their HP is set to 0(unconscious), without any mention of what happens if they were already dying(<0)?


That's the one. It is the iconic example of poor editing in 3.5e D&D, because the disconnect between RAI and RAW is so blindingly obvious, while stuff like Locate City Bomb and Pun-Pun are clearly wrong, but it is difficult to explain how.
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Akura

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #2534 on: October 27, 2017, 05:58:08 pm »

Biggest immediate threat from the spawnhorde is the domination gaze. Their NPC member has already shown vulnerability to it, and Roy has mentioned that half the party has crappy Will saves*. It's also an infinite-use, though it takes a standard action. Imagine if half of them tried it while the other half moves to grapple.

As I said before, winning this encounter will likely come from Roy's Great Cleave feat. Calculations as follows:

The average spawn has 29HP(formula is 4d12+3). Roy has a BAB of +16(assuming 16th-level Fighter), and we can assume(or not assume) that his Greatsword(2d6 base damage) is a +5 magic weapon even without the green fire effect. Here, Roy effortlessly held down a rope two people struggled with, suggesting a Strength score of at least 16(+3 modifier). His total attack bonus is therefore +24, without any further buffs like the green fire or Elan's singing. Almost none of the spawn appear to be wearing proper armor, so their natural AC of 15 is used. Roy has a 55% chance to hit on his first strike, without buffs.

Now, damage. The Greenhilt Sword, again without the greenfire, has a damage of 2d6+5. Add +5 from Strength(+3 times 1.5x, rounded up, because it's two-handed). Vampire spawns have damage reduction 5/silver, which applies since the sword is starmetal, not silver. Damage range is 7-17. Roy has Power Attack, so he can shunt some his attack roll bonus into damage if need be. Now, add buffs. Elan can sing to Inspire Courage, providing(at his level) a +3 to both attack and damage to everyone in the party, while also adding a +3 resistance to the domination gazes. I don't know if bard songs stack(probably not), but Inspire Greatness would give one person +2HD, and a +2 to attack rolls. Possible cheap buffs V could cast are Enlarge Person(bigger range, bigger weapon), Bull's Strength(+4 Strength), and Haste. Minrah might have access to Prayer. With just Elan alone(since his capabilities are known), Roy's first attack would be +27(70% to hit) and 10-20 damage.

As for the green fire, I'm going to guess that it's 3d8 fire damage, doubled for undead(6d8 for these spawn). Damage range is therefore 13-65, without Elan, 16-68 with Inspire Courage. That carries a very good chance of one-shot destroying a vampire spawn in a single hit - and this will trigger Great Cleave, allowing another attack on another spawn. If that destroys the next target, it triggers again, and so on. As far as I can tell, each attack roll in a full attack can be used for a Great Cleave(it falls under "poorly worded"), so even if Roy fails to destroy one with an attack, he can make four total attacks. The solution is to simply let him get surrounded. Even attacks of opportunity will cause casualties.

...I spent too much time researching this post.
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