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[pikachu17]

If Varsuvius was killed, wouldn't the force cage be dropped anyway?

[Lord Shonus]

Don't think so. Forcecage isn't a spell that requires concentration, so it last for the duration regardless of what the caster does (other than dismissing it, of course). This is the same reason why a bunch of flying adventurers don't plummet to the ground if the wizard gets taken out, for example.

[Rolan7]

Giantitp had an interesting 2-page argument about suffocating in force cages (not related to OotS, back in May): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22018966&postcount=56

I've linked to basically the end of the thread because it's by far the best part.  Though the post is about resilient sphere...  A force cage definitely will suffocate the people inside, unless the air is magically replenished or selectively allowed in (I don't the argument was conclusive, so GM call IMO).

Yeah, this still seems like a non issue. Most of the vampires are probably trivial spawn, the heroes have whatever set up time they need, sure Elfboy can't come out blasting but he can set up whatever other spells will be useful and if the heroes can't beat this group of vampires readied actions with their own readied actions they're probably hopeless anyway.

Ehh, the vampire spawn template is pretty heavy.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm (scroll down to spawn)
The dominate is only 5th level instead of 12th, but there are a lot of them.  I'm pretty sure Durkula's a spawn, and it was able to dominate Belkar with apparent ease.  Belkar obviously has low WIS for will saves, but is Elan that much better?  Or V, who sold their soul?

Besides that, such a large group of vampires is very dangerous in melee.  If they hit, they deal negative levels without save.  If they grapple and pin they start doing CON damage every round, and large groups are exponentially good at maintaining grapples.  Think like a zombie apocalypse.

Their HD also switched to D12 (I think) and they definitely heal 2 damage every round, so the wounded can fall back to recover.  There are lots of them.

If Varsuvius was killed, wouldn't the force cage be dropped anyway?

It doesn't require concentration, so I'm almost positive the answer is no.  Particularly since the comic says V needs to manually dismiss it.

[Criptfeind]

tbf Belkar has both low (probably cripplingly low) personal wisdom and classes that give low wisdom bonuses. For the others, at their level? Elan and V should be nearly or actually immune to the domination. Fighters and rogues are more likely to be vulnerable, but Roy seems like the sorta guy to have a strangely high will save, and Haley is pretty resourceful. As for grapples or draining levels and with hits, honestly the level difference should be so high that they shouldn't be able to land those strikes with any type of regularity. One spell by V should kill about half of them and he can easily defend himself with a few spells like invisibility before the fight, Roy should be striking them down with every stroke of his sword. Like. Yeah. Vampire spawn are scary, and there's a lot of them, but they're so high level they won't even be getting exp from this fight. I know the team isn't super optimized but assuming these are all spawn it's the sorta fight you might expect them to face at half their current level.

[Akura]

What are the odds that Roy can one-shot all those vampires? Because as we all know, Roy has Great Cleavage.

He did apparently one-shot the vampire that he killed, since it showed no other damage from Minrah's hammer and it's not apparent if her attack caused it to break grapple with V. Vampires have damage reduction 10/silver, spawn have 5/silver.

[smjjames]

Only problem, don't they have less than 12 hours to get to the council? The spell itself lasts a bit over a day and a half, see the problem....

[Rolan7]

Yeah, I think Roy is safe from domination by being so well-rounded...  Even though, mechanically, having high WIS for a fighter shouldn't save him.  Narratively, I think we just saw the "domination" card get played, and it's going to be a fight from here out (possibly with Belkar getting dominated again, but hopefully a scene where he fights it off by remembering Durkon's death).

I'm not really sure where this is going, though.  V is specifically negated for a round, so won't be carrying the battle.  Belkar's potentially a liability, as are all the NPCs.  I don't think this is leading towards a straight battle.  I think the party is going to have to run.

They might literally just run...  The only other thing I can think of, since V lacks teleport, is an "exit" I often provided for my group in an old campaign: Plane Shift.  It's level 5, but one of the NPCs might have a scroll (or even be level 9, maaaybe).  It's an escape (from what I maintain is an impossible fight), it's a sub-adventure, and it justifies the existence of these NPC clerics.

[smjjames]

Yeah, I think Roy is safe from domination by being so well-rounded...  Even though, mechanically, having high WIS for a fighter shouldn't save him.  Narratively, I think we just saw the "domination" card get played, and it's going to be a fight from here out (possibly with Belkar getting dominated again, but hopefully a scene where he fights it off by remembering Durkon's death).

I'm not really sure where this is going, though.  V is specifically negated for a round, so won't be carrying the battle.  Belkar's potentially a liability, as are all the NPCs.  I don't think this is leading towards a straight battle.  I think the party is going to have to run.

They might literally just run...  The only other thing I can think of, since V lacks teleport, is an "exit" I often provided for my group in an old campaign: Plane Shift.  It's level 5, but one of the NPCs might have a scroll (or even be level 9, maaaybe).  It's an escape (from what I maintain is an impossible fight), it's a sub-adventure, and it justifies the existence of these NPC clerics.

There's only one non-vampire NPC there in the force cage.

edit: There is the cat and the raven, but still, they wouldn't exactly be a threat to the vampires.

[Rolan7]

Of course, my bad.  I forgot that the other clerics stayed behind.  Since they hadn't prepared combat spells, which is totally fair.  I know the pain of being a cleric and not being prepared for surprises   (Though spontaneously casting cure spells sure does help...)

[Criptfeind]

I just don't see the threat if they are spawn. They have 15 ac, so any grappling is a bit of a non starter, they'll get aooed to heck. They have +5 to hit, so they can probably only hit most of the team on a natural 20. Or at least in the very high teens. Sure, V is apparently pretty squishy, but that was a surprise attack, not to mention he could... Just go invisible before he drops the cage, as an example.

[Rolan7]

Good point, there's nothing stopping V from casting invisibility first.
AoO-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if Roy has combat reflexes, but I doubt anyone else does.  Even if they do, I don't think most of them can one-hit these spawn (except Belkar due to favored enemy, and even that's narrative power rather than crunch).

It is a little odd that the other clerics didn't come with...  Their spontaneous positive energy would have been helpful against, you know, undead.  They'd only have to hit touch AC.  But, narrative constraints, and it wouldn't have turned this battle IMO.

[Lord Shonus]

The dominate is only 5th level instead of 12th, but there are a lot of them.  I'm pretty sure Durkula's a spawn, and it was able to dominate Belkar with apparent ease.

Anything of 5 HD or higher that is killed by constitution drain (from the bite) instead of energy drain (from the slam attack) rises as a full vampire, not a spawn.
Durkula's a full vampire.

Blood Drain (Ex)

A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.

-snip-

Create Spawn (Su)

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

[Rolan7]

Awesome!  I kinda thought he was a full vampire, especially narrative-wise, but didn't notice the reason why.

That does mean that, narratively, these spawn will be less likely to dominate Belkar.

[smjjames]

Doesn't he have that trinket he bought in Gnomeville that is supposed to protect against being dominated?

[Egan_BW]

Hmm. Does the wording of that imply that the vampire can raise someone they killed by ANY method of draining Con? There's no specific reference to the bite attack.