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Author Topic: Order of the Stick  (Read 593676 times)

NAV

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1590 on: November 06, 2015, 10:57:15 am »

Throw your sword Roy!
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The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

Rolan7

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1591 on: November 06, 2015, 12:45:02 pm »

Warning, donning tin-foil hat :P
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1592 on: November 06, 2015, 12:48:44 pm »

Warning, donning tin-foil hat :P
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Culise

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1593 on: November 06, 2015, 12:57:10 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Rolan7

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1594 on: November 06, 2015, 01:11:40 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Reminds me of Black Mage
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/18/episode-613-mirror-master/
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 01:14:03 pm by Rolan7 »
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

RedWarrior0

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1595 on: November 06, 2015, 03:05:39 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Reminds me of Black Mage
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/18/episode-613-mirror-master/
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Zangi

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1596 on: November 06, 2015, 03:20:02 pm »

Spoiler: Belkar (click to show/hide)
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Rolan7

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1597 on: November 06, 2015, 03:58:46 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

hops

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1598 on: November 06, 2015, 04:12:53 pm »

As much as I want to see Belkar Tepes, I don't think Durkula wpuld have vamped him, seeing as he threw him off the cliff to get him out of the way.
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Rolan7

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1599 on: November 06, 2015, 04:15:45 pm »

And the thralled priests probably don't have the hasten-undeath spell Malack had, yeah.
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Culise

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1600 on: November 06, 2015, 04:17:53 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think we can set aside spoilers for a rules discussion.  In any case, I believe it's the other way around if I'm reading the SRD correctly.  The victim who is drained (type of drain unspecified) to zero CON revives as a vampire if they have 5 or more Hit Dice.  Of the two types of drain, Blood Drain reduces the victim's CON, while Energy Drain causes negative levels but does not directly affect CON.  As well, a victim of Energy Drain (explicitly specified) will only revive as a vampire spawn after 1d4 days; that method does not permit full vamps.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 04:20:15 pm by Culise »
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Rolan7

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1601 on: November 06, 2015, 04:46:55 pm »

I don't think the blood drain counts:
Quote from: Create Spawn
A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.
Energy drain is a specific ability, different from blood draining.  Blood draining shouldn't even create a wight I don't think, since it's just an ability that deals CON damage (presumably due to bloodloss, but...).  Death ward wouldn't help against it either, it's not negative energy.

...  Heheh, it would work against plant enemies.  Drink their sap!  The target just needs to be alive.  So, wait... Haha, elementals are totes alive too.  Drink a water elemental!  Nibble an earth elemental!

Only undead and constructs know peace from this horror
(Sadly, only humanoids and monstrous humanoids can actually get vamped though)
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Culise

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1602 on: November 06, 2015, 05:02:22 pm »

I don't think the blood drain counts:
Quote from: Create Spawn
A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.
Energy drain is a specific ability, different from blood draining.  Blood draining shouldn't even create a wight I don't think, since it's just an ability that deals CON damage (presumably due to bloodloss, but...).  Death ward wouldn't help against it either, it's not negative energy.

...  Heheh, it would work against plant enemies.  Drink their sap!  The target just needs to be alive.  So, wait... Haha, elementals are totes alive too.  Drink a water elemental!  Nibble an earth elemental!

Only undead and constructs know peace from this horror
(Sadly, only humanoids and monstrous humanoids can actually get vamped though)
I base my understanding based on the following two passages from the full text of both the Blood Drain and Create Spawn abilities, emphasis mine.

Quote from: Blood Drain (Ex)
A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.
Quote from: Create Spawn (Su)
A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.
"Instead," in this case, should be taken as a contrast to the immediately preceding line, and by implication the use of energy drain (which as noted, does not affect CON directly).  But yes, anything with a CON score could theoretically be affected.  You are correct, however, that without the second half of the Create Spawn ability, a CON drain would not create anything by RAW.  That's likely why particular rules for that case were included in the Vampire's abilities, and also why they were not included with the Vampire Spawn abilities. 
...
Hmmm, such a shame constructs don't have CON scores. and that restriction on humanoid and monstrous humanoid base creature exists.  Vampiric modrons... :3
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 05:15:53 pm by Culise »
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Rolan7

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1603 on: November 06, 2015, 05:12:01 pm »

 :o
Yeah I totally misread the text of Create Spawn repeatedly.  Thanks! (:
(Sorry for making so many posts about this, I kinda enjoy discussing rules like this!)
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Culise

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Re: Order of the Stick: 1011 Red Means Stop
« Reply #1604 on: November 06, 2015, 05:19:07 pm »

Sure thing.  I find it fun as well, and I learned some interesting stuff as well, including the restrictions on the vampire template.  Actually, the best implication of this rule isn't even that.  By RAW, because spawn creation doesn't specify the use of Blood Drain in particular at all, any ability score drain that attacks CON specifically will trigger it as long as the vampire is the source.  Blood Drain is the only template-specific way to deal CON damage, but any CON-damaging poison or spell would do the trick just as effectively. 
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