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[Imp]

Tiruin:

ALSO, I did notice that I..tied the vote back there..Erh. Generally, I got confused by all the unvote//votes at the point there, to answer yer query Imp. Add in the note that I didn't get how Nerjin's power works (smooth-talking, to me, is a benevolent persuasion thing. It can use someone, but that someone also has power to withdraw..that power that is being persuaded on him to be used. Do you get how I saw it then?]

Think so.  No further questions on your perspective of it for now at least.

What you say about Nerjin is:  Not Town, because attitude.
What you say about Birdy is:  Cheery, uniformly cheery with one exception.

It's probably telling that you don't also say 'not-Town' about Birdy - but how do you read Birdy, Tiruin, on the alignment scale?

Two things that Nerjin -didn't- originally say about his 'Smooth Talking' was that

1) if it was one-shot or not.
2) that it required someone to first vote him, before he could 'steal' that vote.

I intentionally didn't ask about the one-shot or not (I wondered if he would volunteer, I wondered who else might ask - and I expected it was probably one shot).

Web did not support Nerjin's claim that 'Smooth Talking' requires a person to first vote Nerjin (at least that same day) because Web showed us a vote count that DID include Nerjin's double vote, DID NOT include any mention of Birdy's vote, AND was clarified at the bottom that neither of those things (or The_Iqovian's double vote).... (Mmmmm The_Iquovian.  Interested in that one's role flip, I think he's pretty Scummy, irrespective of Cheeetar's defense.)

Right!  Focused on Nerjin's claim about his vote.  Since Web thought Birdy voted for Nerjin, Web's post of votecount might have been completely in error in terms of Birdy's vote, if Nerjin -is- limited to stealing the vote of someone who has voted for him -that same day-.

However, Nerjin wasn't under serious pressure when he finally did mention he could only steal the vote of someone who had voted for him.  Assuming he's telling the truth about that - Nerjin is -effectively forced- to OMGUS in a way if he wishes to -ever- use that power.

Considering -if- it is true, that Nerjin may only use his power to steal a vote if that vote is cast upon him, does Nerjin still appear to be misusing his double vote?  If so - would any use of Nerjin's vote stealing ability be misuse, given that limitation he claims it has?

[Imp]

Web did not support Nerjin's claim that 'Smooth Talking' requires a person to first vote Nerjin (at least that same day) because Web showed us a vote count that DID include Nerjin's double vote, DID NOT include any mention of Birdy's vote, AND was clarified at the bottom that neither of those things (or The_Iqovian's double vote).... (Mmmmm The_Iquovian.  Interested in that one's role flip, I think he's pretty Scummy, irrespective of Cheeetar's defense.)

Got distracted and didn't finish that paragraph:  "AND was clarified at the bottom that neither of those things were an error.  So Web specifically verified that Birdy had lost his vote and that Nerjin had two votes again.

[Teneb]

First of all, I am sorry for my exceedingly shitty play so far. I let real-life stress get to me and didn't want to admit it was making my performance in mafia poor. I'll try to make up for that, but I'll understand if you don't believe me on this right away.

unvote. Looking at the whole Cheeetar thing, I think in D1 it was just him trying to protect a real-life friend that happened to be acting in a scummy manner than an actual scumbuddy. I'd also like to see that king ability.

Birdy, I have no idea why I was stupid enough to unvote you in D1. Your "premonition" about Toaster, you dancing around TWS's questions, claiming to have the best inspect EVAR right before being lynched, then comes D2 and oops, turns out it was not the best inspect EVAR. In D2 you once again faced the lynch, and once again claimed. Imp made quite a strong case against you, which you then dismiss as a "plot". It looks to me that you are just trying to stay alive, no matter what. You are using a lot of appeals to emotion, calling yourself an idiot to deflect attention. I don't like what you are doing, it reeks of desperation.

NQT, looks like your situation is quite ironic. You kept poking at others for inactivity rather than scumhunting, from what I've seen, and now you are inactive yourself.

[notquitethere]

Cheetar

Screw it, this is stupid. I am Ned Stark, and I am town. I have two abilities- The King's Hand, a day investigate, which I have used to determine that Tiruin (day 1) and Nerjin (day 2) are town. I also have a one-use night ability, Game of Thrones, which I may use to king somebody on the following day, giving them the only vote of the day. Don't lynch me damnit.

Sounds like plausible powers for what you've claimed and we'll be able to tell on Day 3 whether you're telling the truth. Assuming this is the case, we can set up some nice trust-cascades (especially as a Day Investigate is a lot more trustworthy than a night investigate which might have redirected). Giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, I'll rule out you, Nerjin and Tiruin for today's lynch pending your power confirmation tomorrow.


I've updated my rudimentary target analysis

Spoiler: Who voted who today: updated (click to show/hide)

birdy51        Nerjin imp
Cheeetar        Birdy toaster
Deathsword     Cheetar birdy
Imp           Birdy cheetar
Nerjin        Birdy cheetar
notquitethere     Nerjin deathsword The Iqovian sheep Tiruin
Shakerag        Birdy cheetar
The_Iqovian    Nerjin
TheWetSheep    Imp
Tiruin       Nerjin
Toaster      Cheetar

Based on the assumption that Cheetar is crypto-confirmed (not in any way actually confirmed, but hypothetically confirmed pending tomorrow), then we can put aside Tiruin and Nerjin for today, who he alleges to have day-copped. The Iqovian is going to be modkilled so he's not a suspect either. What strikes me is the extraordinary uniformity of vote targets. Today's top suspected players, by ranking of suspicions:

Spoiler: Top suspicions (players with more than 3 people suspecting them) (click to show/hide)

Player Name - # other players that suspect them
Cheetar - 5
Birdy - 4
Nerjin - 4

So of the three most suspected players, two are claimed to have been cleared by Cheetar. We are in an excellent position: if Cheetar is town then we have two confirmed town. If Cheetar is scum then we most likely have one confirmed fellow-scum (why else would a scum-Cheetar clear his lynch-candidate rival Nerjin?). Unvote. What with all these vote shenanigans, before I can make an informed decision, I need a vote count so I know I'm not creating a draw.

[birdy51]

DeathSword

First of all, I am sorry for my exceedingly shitty play so far. I let real-life stress get to me and didn't want to admit it was making my performance in mafia poor. I'll try to make up for that, but I'll understand if you don't believe me on this right away.

unvote. Looking at the whole Cheeetar thing, I think in D1 it was just him trying to protect a real-life friend that happened to be acting in a scummy manner than an actual scumbuddy. I'd also like to see that king ability.

Birdy, I have no idea why I was stupid enough to unvote you in D1. Your "premonition" about Toaster, you dancing around TWS's questions, claiming to have the best inspect EVAR right before being lynched, then comes D2 and oops, turns out it was not the best inspect EVAR. In D2 you once again faced the lynch, and once again claimed. Imp made quite a strong case against you, which you then dismiss as a "plot". It looks to me that you are just trying to stay alive, no matter what. You are using a lot of appeals to emotion, calling yourself an idiot to deflect attention. I don't like what you are doing, it reeks of desperation.

NQT, looks like your situation is quite ironic. You kept poking at others for inactivity rather than scumhunting, from what I've seen, and now you are inactive yourself.

Sweet heavens you are a complete fool. I am not in any way shape or form desperate, and if you think I am, then you have no clue what the hell is going on in this game. I note now, that you have yet to call me scum. You're voting me because I supposedly want to stay alive, which is false. Dying is a part of this game, and if people want to take the mislynch cases against me seriously, I first have to die.

As to the second point, a lot of what I say is off the cuff. When I made the "case" against Imp, it was my firsthand feelings and emotions. It only took me an hour to realize that I was likely that I had the wrong idea. Hence, I unvoted him. He's working hard to justify his case, but he might not neccessarially wrong for it. At this point, I see him as a player who feels that he needs to justify his case against me, likely because he is deep down rather uncertain about me. That is not really scum behavior. Just stupid behavior on my part.

Now as for you. I call it as it is. If my own actions cause me to die, then those are my mistakes. I am a fool for committing them. Would I say anything else? Hell no. Honesty is the best course of action, even if it's not pretty. And now to be perfectly honest, your case is weak and does nothing but justify your vote. Not once do you use the word scum in your accusation, not once do you say that my behavior is wrong. You are not lynching me because I am scum, you are lynching me because of my failings as a player. And to me, that is the basest of scumplay.

Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?

Tiruin

birdy:
Quick question. Why do you keep on saying 'TOWN CAN BENEFIT FROM MY WORDS' pre-death? That's an obvious note if you're town. You don't need to repeat that over and over again. What does that achieve? While I do understand those feelings pre-death (yeah, 'when I was your age...') I precisely wonder why you keep on putting that in as a repeating tone instead of a final rest-note.

Mostly because the issue keeps becoming agitated, and I feel the overwhelming need to repeat myself because of it. As childish as it sounds, I think my base emotions of "I MUST HAVE THE LAST WORD!" is getting the better of me. Physical and mental exhaustion could also be playing a role. I tend to lose filters the more agitated I become. My final rest really is never my final rest. It's sort of like the end of a Beethoven Sonata. Constant agitation, no real conclusion. Luckily I think the song is almost over now.


But... Before the song ends, I would like to notice that there is an extreme focus on what makes me scum. Before I die, ask that anyone voting me indulge me in one last little game. 

All who vote me: The main focus of this game right now is on how I am scum. However, there is an argument to be made for the flipside of the coin. What could make me Townie? I ask this not to escape the noose, but to build material. I want everyone to express doubts if they have them, and for those doubts to be made known.

[Teneb]

Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?

To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party. Looking at your interaction with others, I can't see much that would imply a scumbuddy. I strongly believe you are not town. I am not sure you are mafia.

Do you, feel that scum should only be used when talking about mafia players, or about any anti-town factions, in general?

If you consider it to be a valid term for any anti-town, allow me to say it for your satisfaction: you are scum. If only for mafia players, then let me put it this way: maybe you are scum.

[Shakerag]

Tiruin:

Shakerag: I..count you as the nearest person to my # of posts. What's up with the activity?

First off, I'm guessing that since you're voting Nerjin that you don't trust Cheeetar's claim of inspecting him as town?  Do you think Cheeetar is lying, or that Nerjin has some manner of godfather-like ability? 

Secondly, I almost never post on weekends, and I'm busy most of the rest of the time.  Haven't we been over this before?  I try to make at least one (if not more than one) fairly substantial post per weekday.

[Toaster]

I wish I had time to read through this right now, but I would like to point out that confirming Cheeetar's kingmaker ability does NOT confirm him as town.

[notquitethere]

I wish I had time to read through this right now, but I would like to point out that confirming Cheeetar's kingmaker ability does NOT confirm him as town.

Yeah I guess that's true enough but it does show that he isn't just making stuff up and it does give investigators a big incentive to look into him.

[birdy51]

Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?

To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party. Looking at your interaction with others, I can't see much that would imply a scumbuddy. I strongly believe you are not town. I am not sure you are mafia.

Do you, feel that scum should only be used when talking about mafia players, or about any anti-town factions, in general?

If you consider it to be a valid term for any anti-town, allow me to say it for your satisfaction: you are scum. If only for mafia players, then let me put it this way: maybe you are scum.

The term scum should only be applied to players who directly go against the Town wincon. Serial Killers, cultists, and members of the Mafia are scum. I personally deplore the idea of voting off Third Parties for the sake of lynching Third Parties, especially under the pretense of a policy lynch, as no one can truly tell whether a Third Party by what their intentions are. For instance, the Life Shaman lynch of The Witch's Coven was arguably a complete and utter mistake.

Now, as for myself being a Third Party, no. I can see where you are coming from, especially since my role implies fair and balanced news, which is conducive to the idea of an absent Third Party. However, if I was a Third Party I likely would have claimed it by now, especially since I would need the Town to not lynch me to give me ti to accomplish my Wincon. However, I can still win, even after I die. The fact that I am willing to die should make it obvious that I don't have any ulterior motives.

Still, I appreciate the fact that you are looking outside the box a bit.

As a side note... I wonder if I could use Rerun on the Kingmaker ability. I haven't received anything on how my role works in regards to X-Shots though. I've sent a PM, but I have not received anything back on it yet.

[Tiruin]

PFP - Bad net.

Deathsword~: I do like your reasons for hitting Birdy, foremost is a 'premonition' on Toaster. Hint hint, IT'S JUST A FEELING HE STATED EARLIER. Something which, in a very weird and totally illogical way (which I do note that you didn't inquire in depth on) would work as a tell on him?

Mmm, interesting. I'd like to note that the prospect of how the 'quality' of him claiming 'inspect' matters. Though I don't have birdy's most recent posts in, I've to query you.

If your case pokes birdy of his desperation, then why aren't you poking what is pertinent of him instead of what emotional attack you feel is appealing?

As in, on whether his inspect was of use or not? Or better yet, on why or how his actions certainly equal scum or not?

Also what kind of third-party? Judging by your aggression at the birdy-bird, it seems more of a malevolent third-party yet you don't expound on it. What set it off, and given your thoughts on him, what makes him a more...well, a better option than who you think is scum?

Imp:

Tiruin:

ALSO, I did notice that I..tied the vote back there..Erh. Generally, I got confused by all the unvote//votes at the point there, to answer yer query Imp. Add in the note that I didn't get how Nerjin's power works (smooth-talking, to me, is a benevolent persuasion thing. It can use someone, but that someone also has power to withdraw..that power that is being persuaded on him to be used. Do you get how I saw it then?]

Think so.  No further questions on your perspective of it for now at least.

((It's unfinished but I've published the standpoint wherein I note a discrepancy with logic and scumhunting. Birdy is...nominally town-leaning GIVEN the people's attack-standings on him. They're...weak, for lack of a synonym. To add, given that I'd be checking in an area with better net later, I'm going to pull my tabs on DS and TWS given that their votes note on Birdy's attitude))

Shakerag

Tiruin:

Shakerag: I..count you as the nearest person to my # of posts. What's up with the activity?

First off, I'm guessing that since you're voting Nerjin that you don't trust Cheeetar's claim of inspecting him as town?  Do you think Cheeetar is lying, or that Nerjin has some manner of godfather-like ability? 

Secondly, I almost never post on weekends, and I'm busy most of the rest of the time.  Haven't we been over this before?  I try to make at least one (if not more than one) fairly substantial post per weekday.

Let. Me. Get. To. It. Later. :I
Though in foresight, I'm doing the checking from the start until now and..haven't caught up to the most recent posts. I'll do a comparing of those later.
...But given this, and my checks, Unvote. Comparing what my skimming has done with Cheet//birdy's relation, along with how Nerjin interacted..erh, can't quite see any malice between that in-between the lines.
Will expound later. No I doubt Nerjin, who claims two-voter (I doubt him vote-stealing..I do think he has the power to BORROW votes [as in the original user can still use his own vote given the VOTE-UNVOTE thing I saw them do), also has the power to be a godfather.
That's just wacky. Aaaaand that'd be a real interesting role (in which I'd ask NERJIN why he isn't expounding on his use of double-voting, despite using the heck out of it to.. 'untie the lynch', as far as I see the utility of it, rather than scumhunt thoroughly.)
I mean, checking back. You used it more of an 'I'm fed up with you go die VOTEVOTE' note + anger.
^{Bloody internet connections and their speed on loading a TEXT FORUM...}


birdy

Thanks for the reply and..I'm getting a bit of mixed messages there. Though I see the metaphorical note you have, I've to ask.
Will you fullclaim before the lynch (given how..I really think it IS Monday in Webby-time) or just leave information hanging till the end? What makes you think otherwise  or not- given the player stance at the moment?

[Tiruin]

EBWOP: Future note: My notes do not extend towards this point. [...Ned Stark as in Ironman? darnit memory and surnames >.> Anyway...]
 It stretches vaguely to this point, wherein I'm bits and pieces confused about the Nerjin thing but..huh (It's incomplete being that I haven't caught onto the claims and what was in them in their totality pr on how I'll detail the connections I'm seeing.)

[birdy51]

birdy

Thanks for the reply and..I'm getting a bit of mixed messages there. Though I see the metaphorical note you have, I've to ask.
Will you fullclaim before the lynch (given how..I really think it IS Monday in Webby-time) or just leave information hanging till the end? What makes you think otherwise  or not- given the player stance at the moment?

I actually have full-claimed, just not in a single post. I'll reiterate all my claims here, to make it easier on you and anyone else who is curious.

1) This Just In - Gives me either the names of the people who visited me or the actions that were performed upon me during the Night randomly. Night 1, I learned that I was Protected.

2) Rebroadcast - I learn the other side of the information I did not receive the Night This Just In was used. In this case, I would learn who Protected me if I were to use it tonight.

3) Rerun - The target is forced to retake his action that he used the previous night. To my current understand, this works on any ability, even the factional Mafia kill.

Basically, the main reason I did that is because I don't have anything more to hide. This Just In was unfortunately weaker than I thought it was, which is part of the many colored rainbow reasons of why I am being lynched, and Rebroadcast follows suit.

I won't lie though, there is one final aspect about my role that is not could still benefit us. However, I honestly doubt anyone who is voting me gives a hoot about what I claim. (Bird pun!) WIFOM, etc.

[Tiruin]

I won't lie though, there is one final aspect about my role that is not could still benefit us. However, I honestly doubt anyone who is voting me gives a hoot about what I claim. (Bird pun!) WIFOM, etc.

Eh, I do. You did mention an inspect going along and given the fullclaim..you may either be saving it if in case [SCUM_TEAM_STUFF] happens, which dictates all and any thoughts they may have in regard to you as a target or as a tool or..as anything, actually. Or you're saving it because of...the WIFOM it would create?

I don't get that (and ty for the summary)

[Imp]

Birdy:

birdy

Thanks for the reply and..I'm getting a bit of mixed messages there. Though I see the metaphorical note you have, I've to ask.
Will you fullclaim before the lynch (given how..I really think it IS Monday in Webby-time) or just leave information hanging till the end? What makes you think otherwise  or not- given the player stance at the moment?

I actually have full-claimed, just not in a single post. I'll reiterate all my claims here, to make it easier on you and anyone else who is curious.

1) This Just In - Gives me either the names of the people who visited me or the actions that were performed upon me during the Night randomly. Night 1, I learned that I was Protected.

2) Rebroadcast - I learn the other side of the information I did not receive the Night This Just In was used. In this case, I would learn who Protected me if I were to use it tonight.

3) Rerun - The target is forced to retake his action that he used the previous night. To my current understand, this works on any ability, even the factional Mafia kill.

Basically, the main reason I did that is because I don't have anything more to hide. This Just In was unfortunately weaker than I thought it was, which is part of the many colored rainbow reasons of why I am being lynched, and Rebroadcast follows suit.

I won't lie though, there is one final aspect about my role that is not could still benefit us. However, I honestly doubt anyone who is voting me gives a hoot about what I claim. (Bird pun!) WIFOM, etc.

Mr Birdy-full-claimer, whyfore dost thou never be answerin' this question-o-mine?

Wait Birdy - what about the 'roleswap' you alluded to Web 'alluding' to in this post?

As a side note, Wubba alluded to the idea that I have been swapped, or that my role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping. Take this as you will. It's up to you guys at this point.

Are you ever going to explain what you meant when you talked about Wubba and 'alluded' and 'the idea that [you] have been swapped' (that's a concrete idea, stands alone or should combine with the following) OR 'that [your] role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping' (that's an abstract idea, stands alone or should combine with the previous).

I can totally understand using an AND instead of the OR - to say that you have been told (not alluded to!) that you have been role swapped (you should have your new role though, right?) AND that whomever got your old role is going to get a few surprises, because it's not the same as it was when you had it last.

But to use OR there, you sound like you don't even know if Wubba told you your role was swapped, that your role would be weird if it became swapped --and you explain nothing (so far) as to why you said that or what you mean, because -everything- you've said since then has been about your newscaster role.

Explain yourself please, and explain why you didn't answer me earlier.