Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nerjin]

I don't know. That logic doesn't really check out as a reason to suspect Birdy.

[Tiruin]

As of prior note, I've been making a LONG list of people-their tells from my PoV and interactions. Hopefully gonna be posted later today-am just really swamped by RL, but then I know I can do this and won't be asking for a replacement.

[Nerjin]

Glad to hear it mate. It's always an honor to play with ya.

[Toaster]

NQT and Birdy:

Why did you go out of the way to avoid me Birdy? I have since come to the conclusion (now with good evidence from a game we can't discuss here) that asking everyone questions during the RVS isn't a reliable indicator of townness so I wasn't tracking that aspect of your behavior.

The reason I didn't direct any questions to you, and to avoid you when I could was to see if you would notice. Which you didn't, but as you said that's not a crime. Really, this whole matter comes down to how you respond to the question,"Why didn't you notice?". Frankly, your answer feels a bit convoluted. I still feel that I haven't received a straight answer as to why you didn't notice. You cite that asking RVS questions isn't a good way to find scum, but you've yet to actually say, "No, I missed that you said that" or "Yes, I did see it, but I decided that I had other things to worry about."

In fact, I still don't have an answer to that question. The responses you've given have been purely political, or devoid of any personal sense. Hell, you haven't even asked me why I chose you in particular yet. I think that is valid ground for suspicion.

Could one of you tell me what the point of this whole argument is?  It looks like a big waste of time to me.


Shakerag:

birdy51:

I can't imagine anyone else who managed to make so many gaffes in one day and manage somehow get away with it.

"somehow get away with it."  That's kind of interesting wording.  I'd like to think that if you were town, you would have said "to not get mislynched" instead of "somehow get away with it."

Also, this:

I have committed Occum's Razor by saying this, but I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.

That's a pretty easy deal on your behalf.  I don't know what abilities your scumbuddies have, but I bet from what you've said that you were pretty confident that all of you together could come up with something.  Maybe one of your scumbuddies even did use a protect on you as an alibi.

Not pictured:  reasons for voting Birdy.  Yes, you unvoted him, but you still voted him here.  Why?

The_Iqovian's case on Nerjin feels paper-thin, especially since he has claimed a lack of time to read and participate in the game.  But then double-votes Nerjin before he goes.  And is trying to discern alignment from an ability name.  An incorrect ability name.  In a BYOR. 

And then you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than vote.  Why?


Cheeetar:

It's asking him to guess why he, as a claimed cop, wouldn't have any night kills targeted towards him. Are you saying considering this is useless?

Yes, I am.  Trying to guess the motives of scum is practically the definition of WIFOM.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing he claimed was an investigative role, not cop specifically.  Am I wrong on this?

How exactly is him being so damn private about his investigative role pro-town if he's willing to claim that he's an investigative role? "I'm a cop, but I can't tell you anything about how it works or why I don't have any information for you this night!"

I never said it was pro-town.  Before a massclaim, it's his prerogative on what he wants to claim or not claim.

Toaster! Something odd: Why didn't you protect Birdy? Did you think he was scum, and if so, why didn't you vote for him/why aren't you voting for him or pressuring him at all? You did plan on voting, but at the end of the day, you hadn't placed yours.

I wasn't sure on him either way, so I wasn't going to waste either a vote or a protection on someone I have a poor read of.  As of right now, I'm still not sure- the cases on him seem somewhat weak.

Birdy! Some of the people voting for you are scum

How do you know?


Birdy:

Do you think it would be worth keeping me around? Should I rescind the replacement bid and make an attempt to return to play in full force? Or, would you prefer if I simply allow myself to be lynched/ modkilled?

The game would certainly be more interesting with your position filled- modkills do not make for fun.



I second a request for a vote count.

[Cheeetar]

Toaster! Something odd: Why didn't you protect Birdy? Did you think he was scum, and if so, why didn't you vote for him/why aren't you voting for him or pressuring him at all? You did plan on voting, but at the end of the day, you hadn't placed yours.

I wasn't sure on him either way, so I wasn't going to waste either a vote or a protection on someone I have a poor read of.  As of right now, I'm still not sure- the cases on him seem somewhat weak.

So. Birdy claims investigator to avoid lynch, and you're just so absolutely unsure of whether or not he's telling the truth or not that you avoid questioning him at all or protecting him, and instead decide to ignore him and protect some other dude you think is maybe scum (who turns up dead after you 'protect' him.) Toaster, that doesn't exactly add up. I'm starting to think that claiming a protect was a way to make sure that anybody who saw you visit Hapah's house last night thought your motives were pure.

Birdy! Some of the people voting for you are scum

How do you know?

Mark this my dear friends, mark this. I suspect that not everyone currently voting for me is a townie.

I don't know but apparently Birdy does so I was asking him to state who.

[Cheeetar]

Also, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing he claimed was an investigative role, not cop specifically.  Am I wrong on this?

He's some sort of mysterious super investigator with the ability to stop the scum team in its tracks that's so important to town that anything he could contribute by way of text is useless in comparison... of course, he hasn't helped us yet despite telling us he would, and he can't tell us any of the real specifics of his magnificent powers.

[Cheeetar]

How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?

I don't know what your ability does! You haven't told anybody! I can't tell you how the town benefits from knowing how it works because you haven't even bloody hinted at how it works other than saying that it's mysterious and it was useless last night. You're perfectly willing to claim that you have a super great investigative ability, but until you actually tell us how it works why do you expect us to believe you when you say you have it?

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 - Imp, Cheeetar,
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster,
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin - birdy51, The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep - notquitethere,
Tiruin -
Toaster -
No Lynch -

Not Voting - Tiruin, Nerjin, Shakerag,

6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PM Central.

[birdy51]

Bugger… I probably will not make a huge post, but I have learned that my ability is not nearly as useful as I thought it was. I may as well go ahead and claim it fully at this point, as it's purposes are fairly minimal.

My investigation ability is called "This Just In". Basically, it allows me to see every action or person(I have no choice in the matter, it's random), who successfully performed an action against me. So... Even if I was targeted by a Night Kill, I wouldn't know about until I was... You know dead.

For the longest time, I was under the impression that I saw everything, and that being protected would still allow me to see a Night Kill attempt. With all the attention to my role, I felt that this was the best way to goad the scum into trying to NK me. However, the word successful was something that I added. I can't see, what doesn't actually effect me. This is a sharp change from my prior belief of, "I SEE ALL WHO WOULD DARE TO SMITE OR HINDER THE MIGHTY BIRDY."

Hence, my ability is really… Not very strong at all. There is no point in hiding now, as I won't be able detect both a NK and stay alive long enough to relay it to the Town. If I'm Nked and protected, I'll never see it. If I am Nked and not protected, I'll be dead.

So there you go... You can thank Cheeetar for getting me curious about what my ability doesn't necessarily cover.


As for my other ability, remember that the Scum Team shares the factional kill. Only one of them can perform it. Thus, if I target that player, he will be forced to take the factional nightkill, and use it again on the same target he had the night prior. Even if that target is dead.

However, realize that this requires me to find the person who actually took the NK last night. I might accidentally block one of the scum using Rerun and forcing him to take a nonlethal action, and never know about it. The ideal way for this ability to work requires me to be dead on about who took that kill. It's a foregone conclusion, that unless my WIFOM skills are up to snuff, we will never see a player "double dead" in the morning, and thus know who the scum really is.

So, to recapitulate…

I have two abilities that I have claimed.

This Just In: I will see either the actions or the people who successfully visited me in the Night.

Rerun: The target player will be forced to retake his Night Action under any circumstances. (Even if said ability is shared between a group of people, such as the scum factional kill.)

[Nerjin]

Web, you missed my vote.

Birdy51

And I'm gonna be smooth-talking here in a minute so...

Birdy51

[Cheeetar]

Dang. That is unfortunate. I can certainly sympathise with mistaking your role for something more powerful- on the first reading of my role in more than a few different mafias I was briefly incredibly excited until I reread with more focus. Interestingly, this probably means (if you're telling the truth) that if any other person has an action performed on them, they won't know that anything even happened. Thank you for being upfront! I'm glad my belief that you sharing your role information wouldn't give the scum the key to success (or something similarly silly) was right.
I'll unvote Birdy51 and vote for Toaster. Your two-use protect does not make sense in the slightest to me- somebody else has a protect (and protected Birdy), and Hapah died anyway. I think you're false claiming just in case anybody saw you visit and kill Hapah the previous night.

[notquitethere]

Vote Analysis

You guys should know the drill by now. This is a rolefest and so a lot of us will be leaning more on our powers to find scum, but day actions are important. I think engagement and willingness to take risks are qualities that strong players have and scum generally lack. This is reflected in the vote patterns.

Spoiler: Who people voted D1 minus RVS votes (click to show/hide)

birdy51 -    Nerjin
Cheeetar -    TolyK birdy
Deathsword -    Cheetar
Hapah   toaster shake
Imp -    TolyK
Nerjin -    The Iqovian, Birdy, TolyK
notquitethere -    The Iqovian
Shakerag -    Tolyk
The_Iqovian -    Nerjin
TheWetSheep -    Birdy
Tiruin -    Tolyk
Toaster - Hapah,    
TolyK -

Spoiler: How things are shaping up today (click to show/hide)

birdy51 -    (WUBA says he's voting Nerjin but I can't see where?)
Cheeetar -    Birdy toaster
Deathsword -    Cheetar
Imp -    Birdy
Nerjin -    Birdy
notquitethere -    Nerjin deathsword, The Iqovian sheep
Shakerag -    Birdy
The_Iqovian -    Nerjin
TheWetSheep -    Imp
Tiruin -    
Toaster - Hapah,    Cheetar

There a differing philosophies on the use of the vote. I like to use it to cajole players into playing better. The better the town plays the better the chance we have at winning this thing. It's not necessarily a sign of scumdom, but I associate failure to commit to voting as a sign of weak play. Weak play can be a sign of scum, a sign of risk-averse third-parties, or it can be a sign of ineffectual town. These kinds of players need prodding.

So who've been the most useless today? Tiruin had a weird switch vote on TolyK yesterday and now she's just cruising but... apparently she's coming in with something soon?

As of prior note, I've been making a LONG list of people-their tells from my PoV and interactions. Hopefully gonna be posted later today-am just really swamped by RL, but then I know I can do this and won't be asking for a replacement.

I want to hear it Tiruin!

Shakerag has voted today but then unvoted. Day's coming to an end soon chief: who'd you suspect?

Iqovian (who I won't vote as he's going to be modkilled) and Deathsword have been the most tunnelly: they're the only players to have the same D1 vote as Day 2 vote without ever voting anyone else. So, Deathsword ol' buddy, explain to me why Cheetar is scummier than all other players. What do you think of his latest Toaster vote?

Sheep

Yes, actually. I don't respond faster when you vote me, though.

But you did respond, so i got what I wanted.

Why have your last three votes been directed at people because they're not posting? Especially your vote on Iqovian, since you suspected he was up for replacement. Seems to me you've been trying to put up the appearance of being active with your vote, especially since suspecting many people is one of your most trusted town-tells.

Obviously I don't expect people to judge me town by metrics I've defined myself. As I explain above, I think it's important for town to pressure one another into playing well. I'm glad you put in at least a token effort before the deadline. We get very little information from players that refuse to vote (like TolyK— what did we even learn from their flip?).

A Theory: If Birdy is town, Cheeetar and Tiruin are probably town, since why would they be so fussed about which town player they lynched?

Yeah that might have water, though of course a strong scum player might do that sort of thing to appear town. Cheetar has been very engaged so if he's scum then he's competent enough to pull of that sort of thing. Tiruin's hardly been here.

Toaster

NQT and Birdy:
Could one of you tell me what the point of this whole argument is?  It looks like a big waste of time to me.

Feels like a pointless misunderstanding to me. I think it's been cleared up. Basically, Birdy set what he thought was the perfect NQT-trap. I failed his test but it wasn't a very good test to begin with.

Wuba— can you confirm the Birdy vote? I never saw him vote Nerjin and Lurker-tracker says his last vote was an unvote.

[birdy51]

Wait what?!? Why am I voting Nerjin? Why did Nerjin's vote not get counted on me?

Unvote

I sense shenanigans...

Webadict, could you run the votes one more time?

[Shakerag]

TWS:

Shakerag:

birdy51 - Feeling less town - Could be fakeclaiming; a lot of focus on why he wasn't killed at night

Why are you calling him scum for talking about something that he was asked about?

TheWetSheep - Slightly moving toward scum - I think his case on Imp is poor

If this is true, why aren't you pressuring me?

1 - Yes, he was asked about it.  I don't have an issue with that.  I'm more talking about this post where birdy51 just feels like he's rambling and over-explaining about why he wasn't nightkilled.  It felt kind of like a scumsplanation.  Also I didn't say he was scum, just that my town impression of him was lessened.

2 - Because I didn't feel like doing so at the time and was exploring other lines of questioning against other players that I thought would be more productive. 

Are you implying that there is some bullshit I should be calling you out on, TWS?


Toaster:

Shakerag:Not pictured:  reasons for voting Birdy.  Yes, you unvoted him, but you still voted him here.  Why?

Did you read this post?  To spell it out for you, it was a pressure vote to see if it would evoke a scummy reaction.  It didn't, so I unvoted. 

And then you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than vote.  Why?

Also from the post I linked to above:  I was too busy at the time.


NQT:

Shakerag has voted today but then unvoted. Day's coming to an end soon chief: who'd you suspect?

Hey, thanks for parroting Toaster. 


Cheeetar:  Why are you voting Toaster this close to day end?  Do you really think you're going to rally support for a lynch on him in time?

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 - Imp, Nerjin, Nerjin,
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag,
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin - The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin - notquitethere,
Toaster - Cheeetar,
No Lynch -

Not Voting - Tiruin,

6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PM Central.

birdy51 no longer looking for replacement.

Also, mistakes can be blamed on bad eyesight. Only two hijinks active on voteboard are double The_Iqovian and Nerjin and lack of birdy51. Any other perceived discrepancies can be attributed to madness and should be met with extreme force. Maybe. Who knows?