Cheeetar:
Imp, how do you feel about the person whose demise you orchestrated being town?
Almost resigned. He was the fourth mislynch in a row since I started playing Mafia and I'd only played through 4 lynches then (there's since been a fifth, and it wasn't a mislynch!) TolyK's mislynch was the second time that my top Scum pick was Town (the other two mislynches were compromise votes for me). What bugs me most about this one is he looks like he would have been really useful.
(Auto) The End.: While you’re alive, if an action would cause you to lose the game, that action is undone.
I'm worried that we need that ability, that it is there to counterbalance something. It was also a way he could have maybe made certain that Town won if he made it to a 3 person Lylo. He could have used his day kill on either of the other players - his auto would prevent it from happening if he picked Town (it's an action that would cause him to lose the game) and if he picked Scum then Town would win right there.
I'm also mad at him for acting so Scummily and being Town. Even knowing he is Town now, I read back over D1 and his behavior doesn't look like Town behavior to me. I don't know if he meant to coast through D1 and then start trying to find Scum, or if he thought that the best service he could give Town was to just to float around, making sure he didn't get lynched and making sure he didn't get targeted as a night kill.
It would be better if I didn't waste your time, but it is what it is, from your point of view. I don't consider it a waste of time, and I hope you don't either, in the end.
I now think that's what he was trying to hint he was doing - that's the first thing he said in his response to my Case. I totally missed it at the time, and wouldn't have made the connection on the re-read except I know the name of his abilities now. If he was trying to avoid Scumhunting to dodge night kills, he went too far that direction and seemed too Scummy. He and I share the responsibility for his death, because I didn't make up his behavior that I called him on, and I am supposed to be challenging Scummy behavior and trying to determine who's the most likely Scum. He really seemed Scummy to me, for reasons I detailed
here. He responded to my charges
here, in a way that looked even Scummier to me, which I explained in my answer to his response
here. I'm mad that he acted so Scummy while being Town.
notquitethere:
Can somebody explain to me why everyone suddenly upped and jumped on TolyK? Why did you all move your votes in unison?
I can explain my role in it. I didn't move my vote, I saw TolyK as the Scummiest player but was preparing to change my vote to tie break soon (the vote count had a 3-way tie with 2 votes each for Birdy, TolyK, and Nerjin with 5 hours on the clock when I started considering a compromise vote)
Before I decided I'd better compromise because no one else was, Birdy added his vote. Then Nerjin appeared to
double vote. Nerjin had seemed probably Town to me before that point and I still haven't sorted out what I think about that vote theft. At that time, I could live with a Birdy lynch (lean towards him being Scum) and
say so (note that I have a typo in that, in paragraph where I talk about Birdy I say "I can still live with a Nerjin lynch" - I meant "I can still live with a Birdy lynch" - I had Nerjin on the mind, I'd never seen a double vote before).
When I saw this:
I'm actually a bit more ambivalent about a Nerjin lynch right now, but I'm honestly not sure. I think the best course of action is lynching Birdy. He's not my first pick for scum, but his death would be much better than a tie and I don't think a Nerjin lynch is possible right now.
Just some final thoughts before the reveal from any player who's able was what I was asking for I suppose.
I responded:
And what are your thoughts on TolyK?
I haven't thought about him too much, to be honest! One of the problems with me trying to focus on questioning a narrower band of people. His RVS questions were odd. He's been more active than most lurkers, but for some reason he doesn't at all stick in my mind as an active player of this game- I haven't seen much pressuring or scumhunting from his side of things. Aaaand... that is a huge post on your end about his scumminess (that is a word, spell check.)
I'd absolutely agree that he seems to be actively lurking, as opposed to the lurking lurkers of the game- it's definitely more suspicious than, say, Tiruin's absence from the game. Birdy did seem a lot more invested in the game than Toly, and right now I'm thinking Toly is scummier. Is it too late to lynch a different dude?
From there I tracked the voting and tried to counter confusion - people can't make a choice, or even think about good and bad choices for a situation they don't understand.
Birdy:
Birdy, why do you think you haven't been targeted for any night kills?
Likely because I had made too much of a fuss. To put it simply, I'm not an easy target.
What does your "made too much of a fuss" have to do with "not [being] an easy [night kill] target"?
When you say "made too much of a fuss", are you talking about your posts in this thread or something else?
The only way I could advance the Town Wincon, is to prevent my own death and allow myself a chance to take a Night Action. Assuming I'm still alive in the morning (Which, at this point is probably a fat chance), I should have some rudimentary information to work with.
Regardless, my death should provide some information for the Town to work with. Hopefully, my corpse can be used as a stepping stone for further operations.
@Birdy51
I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
I did find something, it's just that the something is not a lot to go off of. At the time, I was hoping for a more definitive result, but it's clear I missed my mark.
I am too tired right now to form a coherent question about this, so posting it as a reminder to myself to ask about it. The core of my question is that I want Birdy to explain his thinking/reasoning/rationale/expectations as to why he felt that his survival through morning of D2 was "the only way [he] could advance the Town Wincon".
Birdy, if you get around to explaining that before I have time to properly phrase the question(s), that'll be great. If not, clearer question(s) about it when I can.
Nerjin:
If you're so positive Birdy is scum then why aren't you presenting a case and putting a lynch vote down?
You don't read do you? My case has already been presented and I AM voting him, demonstrated thusly:
@Birdy51
[. . .]
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
That 'vote' is in a quote, hence why I didn't. It's not legal but I gather that it was intended.
My apologies then. I didn't realize it was in the quote.
You haven't repeated your vote outside of a quote yet, so technically you're not voting for anyone currently. Is that your intention?
How do you feel now that you know TolyK was town? Do you have a second suspect or were you too busy writing Encyclopedia’s about TolyK to notice a second person?
See my answer to Cheeetar for the first answer. I have other suspects, and will make a list of Town/Scum leanings on everyone before end of day, but I'm going to postpone that for now because I'm really tired.
Toaster:
I need to reread that post flood at day end, but I would like to claim one thing. I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.
Why did you pick Hapah to protect, and why protect Happa N1?
TheWetSheep:
I wanted his reactions. Others' reactions are great too. To my interpretation, he had 'danced' through the game. He had joked, evaded, misrepresented, and shown almost nothing about his motives save that he wanted to appear to be Scumhunting and to 'have something big coming later'. I gave him a wide choice of things to react to.
I continued Scumhunting with numbered points 1-4; everything I did in interaction with him was Scumhunting. I wanted his reactions, I wanted to feel and analyze our interactions. I wanted his answers too.
Why did you accuse him of rolefishing?
The same - I wanted his reaction. I don't know if he was rolefishing or not - I don't understand if rolefishing in a BYOR is even Scummy - I'm not sure that roles make it clear what your alignment or even powers are. I don't know why he decided to say to me, "It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help. Don't you agree?"
All I know is his
reaction to my words. More dancing, more 'say what?' about his Scumminess. More information, scant though it was, to attempt to evaluate his intentions and motives on.
It's interesting that you spend 887 words accusing him of wasting time.
Do you think that an accusation with more words is better than the same accusation put more concisely?
No. Some people are adroit with brevity, others are naturally verbose. I am verbose, and I am trying to limit that. However I will say what I have to say regardless of if that needs 50 words or 5,000.
TolyK appeared to respond weirdly and evasively in close to every interaction he had with each player in this game, to be focused on something other than Scumhunting and I wanted to gauge his reaction to my words. I did not "spend 887 words accusing him of wasting time"; I used the words I needed to interact with him and offer him a range to respond to, because I wished to evaluate his motives and intentions both in seeing how he reacted, and what he reacted too.
notquitethere:
There's no way I'd feel comfortable with you in Lylo with how you're posting, analyzing, and playing, no matter what your alignment is.
Is this how you usually pick a lynch candidate?
Not yet; as that was the 4th lynch I've participated in I don't really have a 'usually' yet. I had recently realized that lylo play is very different from pre-lylo play, and the same strategies that (at least newbies might use to) pick who to vote for on D1 might be deadly stupid in Lylo.
That got me thinking that in a sense, everything that happens before Lylo/Mylo might be a form of 'jury selection', the day lynch and the night kill somewhat akin to the prosecution and defense lawyers asking prospective jurors questions that might reveal biases - each side (and the judge) with a certain number of people they are allowed to excuse as they search for a jury that they can both live with - those that one side most likes are likely to be nixed by the other side, and the people that neither side really likes (but neither side is willing to waste a limited reserve of rejections on) are the ones most likely to actually sit on the case.
How much that applies to Mafia, I'm still thinking about.
Hapah:
Hapah: Pretty early in the game you asked a question about what one could learn about playing Mafia without playing the game. Have you found that the skills and ways of thinking that you use for Mafia are pretty useless and really different from what you use in the other parts of your life?
I'll answer, but I'd love to know what you hoped to learn from my response. Most of my real life skills translate into Mafia okay, but not much of my Mafia-specific stuff translates out to my real life, if that makes any sense. It's mostly because in Mafia you have to be extremely cynical and critical, always looking for the deception, always trying to determine motives behind actions (which is the one thing that's really bled out into my real life, on reflection). I'm simply not that kind of person most of the time, but you have to have that mindset when you're in the game.
I hoped to learn how I might best translate your world- and game-view against my perspectives. Your question was one I would never have thought to ask, because I see tons of connections between real life skills and Mafia skills. Granted, I haven't had much time to notice any Mafia-only skills yet - but the question you asked, "What could one learn about playing Mafia without playing Mafia"- I see so many things IRL that could improve Mafia play, from becoming a better typist, taking psychology or self defense or logic classes, reading old Mafia games, interacting with real life liars... the list is so much longer. I wanted your perspective on why what you asked wasn't obvious to you in the hopes it would help me understand how you think, thus what you may mean when you post. (people who think very differently from yourself may mean totally different things when they communicate than how you interpret it to be).
Author
Topic: BYOR 12 - Game Over: And That's Why They Call Them Mafia (Read 110161 times)