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[Cheeetar]

Err, sorry, missed this one initially.

Cheeetar:

For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.

If you're unvoting TolyK, why are you only FoSing Birdy? Shouldn't you be using your vote to pressure? Are you worried about being seen as bandwagoning? And if the purpose of your FoS is pressure, why aren't you asking him any questions?

He made a suspicious move, but I don't think there are any followup questions I can ask (he was curious! This happens sometimes, and I don't think he can explain it any better than that) and I'm not comfortable voting for him just because of that.

[birdy51]

TheWetSheep

-snip-

Blegh... I think we will just keep going round and round on this one, unless we organize our arguments in a meaningful. I've already answered your question regarding the validity of your accusation of role fishing, and that it doesn't hold water.

You can make an accusation against me, but if it's weak you better as hell, you'd best understand that I will press you on it. To defend one selves honor is just as important as infiltrating and finding the traitorous scum who would kill us in the night. Further, when one strikes lazily with a sword in the daylight, you don't stand there and let it cut you, like a coward might. Nay, you parry and strike a stinging blow in return!

So! If you would have me to say it once more, I shall state once more why I find your accusation against me is as floppy as a fish but we've reached the point where this matter has gotten terribly redundant. To be perfectly honest, my feelings as to your scumminess has diminished somewhat.

The fact that you would not allow someone (Cheeetar) to bandwagon me while you actively attempt to prove a point against me is admirable. If I were scum in your position, I would have undoubtedly said nothing and allow him to think whatever he wills of you. Thus, at this point, I'm willing to believe have we may have simply allowed our wires to get crossed. unvote

You may continue to go forward with your case against me, and I will continue with the traditional dialogue that I have been engaging in thus far if you wish. However, I no longer believe that your intentions are misaligned. Besides… Arguably I did jump a little. :{

Cheeetar

Cheeetar:
How well do you know me, or what kind of roles I enjoy to play?

I wouldn't put any degree of confidence in how well I know you. What kind of roles do you enjoy playing - why did you ask me this question?

It was Socratic question. As you might have also guessed, I don't have the slightest clue on God's green earth what roles you might enjoy, and I know even less about you as a person.  Thus, how could I have possibly gleaned what kind of role you have from such a basic question?

Now, as to your second question,that could be considered role fishing. Still… I feel like answering this one anyways.

I like the trickster archetype. Characters with a gimmick or entertaining sub -plot. Something that makes them stand out in the long run. I enjoy a roles that embody that same kind of spirit.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On an entirely different note, I just saw a movie from the 1920's Mark of Zorro. It was a silent film, but it was accompanied by a traditional styled band. I am now also fully regretting not making my role Zorro.

[Hapah]

I'm not sure that either usually knows their target's alignment; definitely they sometimes do not.  For the purpose of answering these questions, assume neither brother nor guardian angel would know their target's alignment.

Brother for sure, then. Looks like it'd be easier, unless the angel was really powered up to compensate for the tougher wincon.

Uh— there's 12 other players. There's probably, what, three scum? So if you're not scum (an open question at this stage) then you've got only a 1/4 chance of catching scum in the first random person you start querying. I think you should definitely press people that are jumpy but you can press more than one person at a time.

If that one person continues to act suspicious, then they will continue to be questioned. And sure, you can question multiple people, but I normally focus on one (sometimes two) that seem to be acting funny. There will still be questions of opportunity at others if they say something unusual or that I don't understand, but I tend to sit on one person until I'm satisfied.

Though I’m curious if you still find Toaster as the biggest scum possibility. Granted you never seemed to but yet your vote is there and I want to know what you think right now.

No, I suppose not. It was more an RVS question than anything, I thought his question a little odd. I don't have any good suspicions at the moment; I'm barely finding time to pop in and answer questions asked of me. I'm off Sunday and Monday (HALLELUJAH!), so expect actual posts and a good read of the thread then.

Unvote.

[Cheeetar]

Cheeetar

I wouldn't put any degree of confidence in how well I know you. What kind of roles do you enjoy playing - why did you ask me this question?

It was Socratic question. As you might have also guessed, I don't have the slightest clue on God's green earth what roles you might enjoy, and I know even less about you as a person.  Thus, how could I have possibly gleaned what kind of role you have from such a basic question?

Zorro woulda been cool. You could've assumed that people like playing roles that are more powerful, or just looked at the games I'd had where I'd seemingly enjoyed myself the most and the roles I had in them.

[TolyK]

TolyK:

TolyK— you've played a lot of role heavy games right? Are there any really common things we should be looking out for?

Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.

Worried about another SK?  Worried about a cult?  Worried about something ruining your plans?  Hi scum. 

I'm not quite sure (pun not intended... >.>) how you came to that conclusion. I was asked a question for "really common things" to look out for, so I answered to my knowledge. Even if I were scum, I don't think I would have any overarching plans on D1, and I'd be more worried about a cop or something ruining my plans.
But the main thing is, does my answering that way mean that I'm worried about something?

TolyK:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

TolyK

Basically, Iqovian and Birdy would bus, while Imp seems unsure. Will report some more later.

Curious. I'd be interested in hearing what you'd conclude from that.

See below.

I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from.

...
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.

@TolyK
Well you’ve not posted much but are apparently quite busy. Fair enough, however when you HAVE posted what you’ve said has amounted to questioning the people you don’t know. Next time you post I hope you have more than active-lurking to show for it.

Who do you see as scummiest and why?

See below.

Nerjin:

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?

birdy51, The_Iqovian, and Imp for the first and Toaster for the second.

What's funny is that these are exactly the guys I'm looking at right now.

Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing.  Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.

You can still do scummy stuff if you have innocent intentions.

I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum.  Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?

This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?

*post*

*other post*

Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.

The Iqovian

Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.

So your way of forming reads in the face of low-content is to... sit back and answer the handful of questions people pose?

At this stage of knowing absolutely nothing about the other players, any questions I pose will be horribly generic @everyones which will do nothing but display my own ineptitude.
Or land myself in hot water, like with Cheeetar's rolefishing fiasco.

You seem pretty concerned with not being in hot water. I understand you, however Cheeetar didn't really have anything on you, so it's not really hot water, is it?


Scummy? A bit. But they all have something in common, don't they?

I'm not quite following you with this one… Would you care to expound why you clump us all together?

You're all basically doing stuff I did when I was newer - going with the "I'm innocent, so why is what I say scummy?", "Lets help the town", "Oh crap someone said something about me it must be serious" (in order). Thus, I'm fairly sure you're all town, because I haven't found anything damning your case yet. However, I'll be looking for the time being.
Think of this as me testing you as a group.

[Imp]

TolyK:

Spoiler: TolyK has been putting on a show for us! (click to show/hide)

Such a fine performance deserves narration.

« Reply #107 on: October 29, 2013, 08:33:21 pm »  Game starts.
« Reply #141 on: October 31, 2013, 01:38:09 am »  Your first post.

In that post, you go Woah!  You self depreciate.  You waffle, 'gotta go soon, won't ask any real questions'.  You answer questions.  You ask one question - granted, its a neat one.  Tricky, specific, targets three players; a unique type of question so far in this thread.  It includes a detail that probably cannot happen in any real game - that a member of the Scum team knows a claim is about to be proven wrong.  This question deserves to be quoted again, in all it's glory.

Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?

I dispute that because I can see someone reacting to a proven wrong claim - but to see it coming - no.  I don't think one 'sees proof coming' ever.  Fear it might, prepare for when it does, react when it happens - but 'see it coming'?  Your question's reaching all over the place, and with that it went into far fantasy where telepathy and precognition dwell.

But everyone, stay seated - TolyK is going to take us on a far more interesting ride
I'm the first to answer you, which triggers your second post.

It answers three newly asked questions, though you don't bother to ask any more yourself, and you make the interesting assertion to me (bolding is mine),

Makes sense. I'll get back to you when I hear the other answers.

Birdy answers you, which triggers your third post - it's nothing but a response to him.  Course, it looks nice and long, since you quote everything in his previous post that's directed towards you - including his original question to you from days before that you'd already answered.  Somehow this fails to hide the shortness of your 20-word answer - but it cannot hide the strangeness!  For you said (bolding is mine):

You seem to be in the impression that I meant a single claim.  I'll wait for the third response.

... oh ho!  I'd misunderstood that too!  when you said the one to the left, you really did mean that all three of us were simultaneously in that situation you imagine together.  All three Scum, sitting in a circle, every one had made a claim, and every one saw that the claim of the person on their left was about to be proven wrong - but of all three, none caught their own mistake, and none noticed the proof coming to counter the Scum on their left.

Your theory has donned tin hat and is wearing its coat inside out, to confuse the fairy folk who stalk it - Wait!  No one leave the theatre yet, for TolyK hasn't finished taking us for a ride... we've got to see the rest of this show.
You'd said "I'll wait for the third response."  And wait you do.  18 hours later, you post again - You respond to a response with flattery, you flinch and toss out chaff in response to another question, and post nothing else except a response to the third answerer -

So, basically, bus the guy while trying to rebuff the accusation. Gotcha.

... Wait, where's the show you were promising?  My popcorn's going to get cold!
Ahh, there it is.  That wasn't long.

For those curious on why I asked this, it was to get insight on how the three people (that I haven't seen before) say would act.

[all three of our answers lined up together - he'd already quoted each one alone before - he even keeps in each of us quoting his question.  His post has got to look long enough to hide that it's only got 41 words in it, the top set blatantly obvious about why ask, and the bottom set simplest possible analysis of what we said - and a reminder the show's not over yet, keep watching!]

Basically, Iqovian and Birdy would bus, while Imp seems unsure. Will report some more later.

...  ...  Oh right.  THis is just intermission.  It is a show, shows have intermissions.  Alright.  I hear the crowd whispering, 'this had better be good'.  Don't worry folks - TolyK has a plan!  It's a great plan!  You've got to hear it.

@TolyK
Who do you see as scummiest and why?

See below.

Nerjin:

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?

birdy51, The_Iqovian, and Imp for the first and Toaster for the second.

What's funny is that these are exactly the guys I'm looking at right now.

Wait!  What is this?  More precognition?  Is TolyK insinuating there's a link between him and Shakerag?  Oh, no.  Drat. Just that Shakerag did answer this before TolyK's first post, and for once, TolyK DID edit out part of an answer when he quoted.  But it's just to show that even in this, he copied his 'answer'.

Nerjin:
How does asking this question to everyone lead to you getting leads on scum?

Aha!  Everyone!  This is the final huge answer that TolyK has been leading us towards!  He's found a way to find the Scumteam early on in D1!  He's just so shy and playful, he couldn't come out and say it - he had to entertain us with this merry dance!

To hide that he's doing absolutely nothing but wasting his time and ours.

I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from.

...
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.

Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same?  How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too?  Oh, right.  You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting.  I see it now, thanks!

I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from.

...
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.

Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same?  How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too?  Oh, right.  You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting.  I see it now, thanks!

Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing.  Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.

You can still do scummy stuff if you have innocent intentions.

And innocent seeming, time-wasty stuff when you have Scummy intentions, you mean as well, so tongue-sticking-outly?

I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum.  Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?

This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?

Nope.  Sincere question, I meant every word I said.  Happens I'm a newbie, this is my third game.  The first two haven't ended yet; when you look at my ears that's not length you see; they're still wet.

None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself.  Beware the cute ones.

You on the other hand.  Considering how you play games, are you trying to clue us in to having picked Elmer Fudd as your role choice, in a "Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits" sort of way?

Newp.  "Oh, you dubbuh-cwossing wabbit! You tweachewous miscweant!"  is all I have to say to your Scummy side.

*post*

*other post*

Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.

Ping.  Ping.  Have you had enough pings yet?  Have you had enough of wasting time yet, both yours and ours?

[Imp]

Deathsword:

And is Griffinpup still tentatively confirmed?  He's not logged into the forum in over two weeks again.

I don't know...

Overall, I'm not against starting without him. He knows I don't take kindly to people lurking.

How'd you get brave enough to lurk so much?

Nerjin:

But I have a question for you: Who do you think is the scum-team right now?

Team?  Oh my.  I tried that.  I looked deep into the game, my very first game, and I saw super scummy one and then I saw even wow so much scummier two.  BMs, they're open set ups.  I knew we only had two Scum.  So then I looked for how they interacted.  And I even saw stuff that suggested that they were indeed a Scum team working together.

It was about a month ago.  Thank the gods I've learned better since then.  The game's still ongoing, but both my first picks are dead, so I assume it's fine for me to say that I was wrong about both because nothing I'm saying is supposition, everything is part of open record.  One of my 'identified Scumteam' got lynched, the other night killed (and was the jailkeeper); both were Town.  I wasn't wrong about their being Scummy, but I was wrong about almost every single thing I thought it meant.

I have no thoughts towards a Scum team now, at this point I'm not looking for teams; at this point I consider myself incompetent to find teams, especially on D1.  For now, I'm perfectly happy to find anti-Town, aka Scummy, and sublimely happy to attempt to figure out if that Scumminess means actually anti-Townness versus all the other things it might mean.

Deathsword:

Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make).  Which would you probably use more often, and why?

Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.

What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?

Trying to figure out how to avoid catching a redirect, Imp?

Nope.  Please hold your follow up until Deathsword has either answered or suffered some fate that makes it clear he won't be answering?  I might also need some time for my own follow up.  I'll be fast to indicate this (by following up, or by letting you know I'm ready) if that's the case or not.

Birdy:

Finally, I am taking TheWetSheep's argument seriously, because I find it lacking under pressure.

I didn't think his point was valid in the first place, especially now that he himself has gone against it. TheWetSheep is establishing himself as valid, but he skips the part where he admits that his both his question and his vote were weak.

I believe I see what you're talking about.

When you say that you're taking his argument seriously (but don't think his point was valid in the first place and note that he's countered it himself), do you mean that you are going to be taking your reaction to his argument seriously, or his actual argument seriously?

Hrmm... Regardless my point is getting convoluted. When I get some time, I'll try to arrange both off our arguments in some kind of meaningful context as opposed this gobbeldy gook mess of disconnected thoughts and words.

That's probably helpful, at least overall, but I don't mind trying to follow your 'natural style'.  If I'm capable of following your words, I won't mind your letting me peer deeply into your perspective and see things from your point of view.  Course, if that perspective looks Scummy, that's going to get some attention so it can be cleared up.  Being confusing can be risky though - so play as you see fit.  I'll try to follow however you play.

[Vector]

Imp, I like you.  I hope you play in some of my games :]

[Toaster]

Blah blah, getting behind.

NQT:

Toaster

Nope.  I don't expect anyone who asks such broad-spectrum questions to do much following up at all.  This applies to individual questions to everyone like you did as well.  Aren't you doing that just to defeat your own tell?

I follow up on my questions, and I don't see how I could 'defeat' my own tell as if I tried to attack everyone for bogus reasons it'd be pretty obvious. Or were you referring to the post-count thing? Do you have a problem with engaging everyone in conversation? I know there are only so many hours in the day...

I was referring more to the "how many people do you engage" tell of yours.  If you can actually follow up and get real value out of your questions, then more power to you.  Typically the majority of them go nowhere and the lack of pressure they generate means they have no value.


Cheeetar:

Cheeetar

Standard tells I suppose. Rolefishing, inconsistent arguments, defending scummy players, attacking and voting for players for no reason (excepting day 1 stuff designed to draw a reaction).

I see, so when do you think the drawing-a-reaction phase ends?

I'd say when people start earnestly voting for people because they believe they've found a scum player.

Do you think the game can go back to that phase?

For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.

Why bother unvoting if you're not going to vote back?  There's no real reason that couldn't have been a vote.  Oh hey, you answered that already.


Nerjin:

@NQT

Nerjin

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devastating as scum?

What's your answer to the very same question?

I won't answer that question[/joke]

It's not really a joke if you still don't answer the question, right?


Imp:

I got curious and tried to search that up, I couldn't find it either through Mafia Scum wiki's search or Google.  Thought I found a reference to it with a Google of "lynching towniest player lylo", but that was actually a game thread for a "Weird Voting Mafia", and yeah, it had weird voting.

Checked it because Google quoted "So even if they weren't the towniest player during the day, the fact that the .... you want to see lynched), the towniest at the top (the person you want to have...", that quote seemed pretty garbled but I thought it might relate to what you found; nope, they had a crazy vote system and were trying to teach each other (even at lylo!) how to avoid accidentally lynching people that were seen as Town picks (the voting system required every player to vote for every player, order mattered).  Glad that's not our game.

I did want to find the page you were talking about if I could, it sounds interesting, but even more I'd like to know how you'd use it.  What advantage do you see in "flashing that particular page heroically" if you could?

What you're looking for is the Too Townie fallacy.  It doesn't fly.

Your vote here... I don't get it.  The theatrics are nice, but they lack a conclusion.


Shakerag:

Toaster:

No, nothing of note came from either of you.

Why say this?  It feels like you're closing off the potential for one of them to be nervous about your conclusion.

Because I figured someone would ask me what I got about that.  I'm not huge on headgames like that (unless it's a lot more direct.)

[TolyK]

Blah blah, getting behind.

This.

TolyK:
TolyK has been putting on a show for us!
...
To hide that he's doing absolutely nothing but wasting his time and ours.

Possibly, but I hope not.

I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from.

...
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.

Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same?  How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too?  Oh, right.  You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting.  I see it now, thanks!

I... don't quite understand the first question.

Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing.  Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.

You can still do scummy stuff if you have innocent intentions.

And innocent seeming, time-wasty stuff when you have Scummy intentions, you mean as well, so tongue-sticking-outly?

Not what I had in mind, no.

I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum.  Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?

This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?

Nope.  Sincere question, I meant every word I said.  Happens I'm a newbie, this is my third game.  The first two haven't ended yet; when you look at my ears that's not length you see; they're still wet.


None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself.  Beware the cute ones.

Role fishing? Seriously? You are trying so hard to "prove my guilt" that you are trying to tack everything even slightly related to it?

You on the other hand.  Considering how you play games, are you trying to clue us in to having picked Elmer Fudd as your role choice, in a "Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits" sort of way?

Newp.  "Oh, you dubbuh-cwossing wabbit! You tweachewous miscweant!"  is all I have to say to your Scummy side.

This just made me laugh a bit, thanks.

*post*

*other post*

Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.

Ping.  Ping.  Have you had enough pings yet?  Have you had enough of wasting time yet, both yours and ours?

Code: [Select]


Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.


I'm sorry if that's wasting your time, however it's mostly you who "wasted" it. It was never my intention to "promise a Broadway show", I was stating what I was going to do. Can you concisely state your case on me, please? And don't try to tack on unrelated things such as rolefishing, which there is no hint of in any of my posts. Thanks.

[Teneb]

Sorry for vanishing like that but had a busy day (thursday) followed by my birthday (friday) so I was a bit busy.

Deathsword:

Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make).  Which would you probably use more often, and why?

Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.

What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?

I'll redirect anyone I feel is scummy. Preferrably to another person I also find scummy.

Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)

You only have two posts and the first was just you asking questions that you don’t follow up on and the second was just you agreeing with other players and slightly [almost a miniscule amount] pressuring Birdy51. Why are you lurking? Do you feel confident that Birdy51 is scum? Do you plan to actually participate?

Birdy's assessment of Toaster seems wierd, somehow. Especially his insistant claim that he feels Toaster is town. That implies he has knowledge that others do not. There is also the matter of him dodging questions, as you pointed out. As for activity, it'll increase from now on. (I know I don't have the best record when it comes to this, but I'm attempting to change that)

Cheetar

Spoiler: @Cheetar (click to show/hide)

Cheeetar:

[. . .] The good guys tend to be reactive- police wait for people to commit crimes before arresting them, and so on. Aggressively questioning people can make them implicate themselves, but so can analysing the posts they make, and even townies can say stupid things that seems suspicious if they feel under pressure.

Have you had much trouble in games, with a more 'reactive' style of play being taken as a more 'passive' one, and thus being seen as Scummy?  If this was to happen in the future, how would you prefer to resolve the concern?

I don't think I've had major problems with it in the past, no. I'd resolve the concern like I'm resolving it with you now- explaining what I'm doing. If that isn't sufficient, and you feel you'd ought to lynch me for what I see as a valid way of playing town, then I personally think you'd be being scummy by trying to find an excuse (any excuse) to lynch somebody.

I’m glad your analyzing everything. Who do you suspect right now? Do you plan to be more active on Day 2?

It's much easier to be active on Day 2 because there's more to talk about - the results of the lynching Day 1 (if it was scum, who they seemed to be teaming up with or avoiding pressuring at all), the results of the nights actions, any information you yourself may have gotten that's usable. Right now? I suspect you, Nerjin.

Spoiler: @Iqovian (click to show/hide)

Iqovian: Do you trust common methods, or do you prefer to be innovative and unconventional in your scumhunting?

If the method is tried and true, the scum have tried it and likely know counters. I try and be innovative, but people usually misinterpret that as acting scummy and I get lynched. Of course they interpret most things I do as scummy, so there's not much change there.

You know what might help you "innovation" a bit? Posting more and trying to figure out who's scum. Stop lurking, get off your lazy bum, and get to work peon.

Of your three posts, you've said:

1. I want to be confirmed town
2. Playing with a ventrilloquist is annoying
3. You've played email mafia and not forum mafia
4. I'll address this one personally here in a second.
5. You explain what a ventrilloquist role would entail
6. You have no trouble bussing a scum-buddy.
7. You don't have reads. So you won't do anything to get them.
8. See the above quote.

Now, onto #4, this struck me as HUGELY scummy:

The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?

Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.

So you have no one to shift blame onto? You know who shifts blame Iqovian? Scum.

This is an incredibly suspicious post. Iqovian hasn't posted as much as other people and that is your only reason to vote for him, disregarding his joke completely flying over your head. There are also other people who you've called out in your post for not posting as much, some of whom have posted even lesss but you seem much less concerned about it- is Iqovian just an easier target, given that he's newer to this style of Mafia than everybody else?

The Iqovian is certainly new, but don't you think this quote here...

The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?

Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.

... is somewhat strange? Why would town want to shift blame onto someone else?

What do you make of that quote?

[Cheeetar]

Cheetar
The Iqovian is certainly new, but don't you think this quote here...

The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?

Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.

... is somewhat strange? Why would town want to shift blame onto someone else?

What do you make of that quote?

It looks like a joke to me.

Iqovian, what did you mean by that statement?

[birdy51]

Blargh... Tired, busy, and cooking this post up while my laundry is washing. I likely will not have a post for Sunday, unless I shoot it off sometime in the morning. Likewise, I have very little energy for writing summaries of events and placing them in logical order. Adding onto that fact is that I've been very much an introverted character thus far, concentrating on what is close to me. I need to branch out a bit, and start directing questions again whenever I get the chance.


Imp:

Birdy:

Finally, I am taking TheWetSheep's argument seriously, because I find it lacking under pressure.

I didn't think his point was valid in the first place, especially now that he himself has gone against it. TheWetSheep is establishing himself as valid, but he skips the part where he admits that his both his question and his vote were weak.

I believe I see what you're talking about.

When you say that you're taking his argument seriously (but don't think his point was valid in the first place and note that he's countered it himself), do you mean that you are going to be taking your reaction to his argument seriously, or his actual argument seriously?

Hrmm... Regardless my point is getting convoluted. When I get some time, I'll try to arrange both off our arguments in some kind of meaningful context as opposed this gobbeldy gook mess of disconnected thoughts and words.

That's probably helpful, at least overall, but I don't mind trying to follow your 'natural style'.  If I'm capable of following your words, I won't mind your letting me peer deeply into your perspective and see things from your point of view.  Course, if that perspective looks Scummy, that's going to get some attention so it can be cleared up.  Being confusing can be risky though - so play as you see fit.  I'll try to follow however you play.

A bit of both. I am taking my counter-argument seriously, because I believe his argument is a serious enough matter to deserve seriousness. Even if I don't believe in what TheWetSheep is saying, the accusation itself is important. Everything I am saying would be null if he hadn't of made the argument in the first place, and likewise his views either gain or lose traction depending on how I responded.

Which, I should probably say this; I am glad that I kind of flew off the handle. Someone needs to make a scene, otherwise people just sort stare at each other listlessly.

As to your second point, I would expect no less than for someone to seek out a bias. I would be a bit more frightened if people weren't critically reviewing my statements.

Deathsword

Sorry for vanishing like that but had a busy day (thursday) followed by my birthday (friday) so I was a bit busy.

Deathsword:

Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make).  Which would you probably use more often, and why?

Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.

What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?

I'll redirect anyone I feel is scummy. Preferrably to another person I also find scummy.

Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)

You only have two posts and the first was just you asking questions that you don’t follow up on and the second was just you agreeing with other players and slightly [almost a miniscule amount] pressuring Birdy51. Why are you lurking? Do you feel confident that Birdy51 is scum? Do you plan to actually participate?

Birdy's assessment of Toaster seems wierd, somehow. Especially his insistant claim that he feels Toaster is town. That implies he has knowledge that others do not. There is also the matter of him dodging questions, as you pointed out. As for activity, it'll increase from now on. (I know I don't have the best record when it comes to this, but I'm attempting to change that)

Forgive me, but this seems a rather lazy brand of argument. You haven't even followed up on my responses. Otherwise, you might have noted that my claim is hardly insisting that Toaster is town. Also, I dodged "a" question, not "questions" as you might imply. Further, I have since justified said dodge, as I wanted to know why he asked the question in the first place. I realize that you are busy, but come now. Your attempt to justify what is essentially an RVS vote is doing you little favors.

A good game of Mafia cannot run on idle wheels.

[Cheeetar]

Which, I should probably say this; I am glad that I kind of flew off the handle. Someone needs to make a scene, otherwise people just sort stare at each other listlessly.

Are you claiming that you did it intentionally, or that in hindsight it's a good thing you overreacted?

[notquitethere]

Cheetar

Why are you so concerned with who everybody else thinks is scum? Shouldn't you be focusing on your own investigation instead of finding out who the easiest person to bandwagon on is?

I don't think Nerjin's necessarily on the wrong track here. Often scum find it hard to give legitimate reasons why other players are scummy. Do you have any scum picks yet, with the day drawing to a close?

I heavily disagree- I wouldn't say scum are usually hyper active, but it's definitely not uncommon.

Sure, the more successful scum are more active. But my research has shown that the most active players tend to be town.

Hapah

If that one person continues to act suspicious, then they will continue to be questioned. And sure, you can question multiple people, but I normally focus on one (sometimes two) that seem to be acting funny. There will still be questions of opportunity at others if they say something unusual or that I don't understand, but I tend to sit on one person until I'm satisfied.

I'm not sure that that's the most effective technique, but it being suboptimally effective is hardly a scum-tell. You've just unvoted now, so who're you sitting on next?

Toaster

I was referring more to the "how many people do you engage" tell of yours.  If you can actually follow up and get real value out of your questions, then more power to you.  Typically the majority of them go nowhere and the lack of pressure they generate means they have no value.

Ah that, yes. I follow up all my initial questions, and try to maintain a conversation from thereon, though obviously it's harder with so many players in this game. Sure, a lot of threads may not be initially promising but I like to keep pressing everyone, coming up with new lines of inquiry when old ones run low. Regarding Nerjin's 'joke', he actually just answered the question in his preceding response to Imp. 

Speaking of Imp, what kind of read are you getting on her so far?

TolyK
Don't just respond to Imp's attack, anyone could do that. If you want us to think you're not scum you've got to press your own cases too.

The Iqovian, Tiruin— you guys still about? Got any read on the game yet?