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[gogis]

Also funny, that marksdailyapple(one of my fav sites btw ) later in article shows how much benefit you gain from large muscle mass.

[Knight of Fools]

Sigh. You know why I only linked articles that refuted your argument? Because I couldn't find any that actually supported it.

Your situation is entirely anecdotal, like you say, "Let's say for me". There's no study behind it, and there's nothing you prove you actually did what you're saying besides your own memory and desire to prove yourself right. That's not good enough for most of us. Also, eating more chicken, eggs, and whey protein isn't an untouched diet. That is, in fact, a fairly healthy bump in protein and fats for what you were doing. And you're surprised that you didn't get ripped from playing soccer? Welcome to only working certain muscles and playing sports. As for calories burned, playing soccer isn't the same as running constantly and consistently.


And your last statement is an outright lie. Running has the same after burn effect as lifting. It doesn't matter what you do, if your body is recovering from it, it's burning calories. As far as I can tell, there's little difference between running and lifting when it comes to after burn. Exactly how many calories are burned during recovery depends on the intensity of the workout, and any workout can be more intense.

Also funny, that marksdailyapple(one of my fav sites btw ) later in article shows how much benefit you gain from large muscle mass.

This has nothing to do what we're talking about, and I've mentioned several times that weight lifting is good for you. Just because I'm saying jogging burns more calories than weight lifting doesn't mean I'm against being well-muscled, and I'm well aware that having muscle gives you a lot of health benefits. However, in this conversation, we're specifically talking about calories burned.

[NRDL]

PTW

[Andrew425]

You guys are missing out on the best workout machine of all. The rowing machine. Its like doing a squat every 4 seconds for an entire hour. Your hands might complain but after a few weeks they'll be so tough people will think you're a lumberjack.

[Helgoland]

You also could get a boat...

[Andrew425]

Racing skulls are expensive require calm water and are very prone to tip over. Plus your hands will get ripped to shreds.

Though rowing is really on good for getting lean. It's hard to bulk up with it.

[Reudh]

You guys are missing out on the best workout machine of all. The rowing machine. Its like doing a squat every 4 seconds for an entire hour. Your hands might complain but after a few weeks they'll be so tough people will think you're a lumberjack.

i have to say, i agree - they're great fun to use, and I put on some fair muscle in my arms from using it.

[Helgoland]

Racing skulls are expensive require calm water and are very prone to tip over.

I meant an old-fashioned rowing boat; these can't be too expensive. Row, row, row your boat...

[Astral]

I'm going through a somewhat similar point in my life, with an 8 hour a day sedentary job that I usually don't do much more than sit on my ass and take calls from people who really shouldn't be using iPads. The biggest issue is that it's 4pm-midnight, and I am not a morning person, usually punching my alarm clock for an hour before finally getting up to go to work. I generally eat something for breakfast (around 3pm), something for lunch (anywhere from 7pm-9pm as schedule dictates) and don't ever feel much like eating after I get home, especially after working out.

This is in stark contrast to my previous job, which had me on my feet the whole time, occasionally lifting 40 pound frozen soup boxes, and being surrounded by food, while having a schedule that ranged anywhere from 6am to 10pm as needed, not including going to college during that time period.

I recently started a stint at a gym, going 3-4 times a week (Monday through Thursday) after work, which is nice to have open since pretty much everything else is closed after midnight (and I can't even buy alcohol in my state after midnight, which is a sad travesty). While I may be mentally exhausted from dealing with stupid, I feel more physically energized after I get off from work and spend an hour doing a scattershot of about 20 minutes heavy walking on the treads (max incline at about 2.5-3 mph will cause you to sweat), and doing 20 reps of lower weight leg, back, arm and abdominal exercises, about 10 different machines in total. After 20 reps, I see if I can do 2-5 on double the weight. I've found that the seated leg press enables me to do a few (small, not full stretch) 390 lbs reps, which is something.

Prior to finishing high school, I was doing anywhere from 2-5 days a week of martial arts, which didn't cause me to lose weight due to my shitty eating habits, lack of self control (which is funny, considering how much of that was based in self control) and even more sedentary lifestyle. I still maintain my flexibility and dexterity from those points in time, but extra fat gets in the way of being completely able to move around as I used to.

In the two weeks since I've started, I've lost about two pounds, and feel a lot better overall; just need to keep this going and maybe I can keep seeing more results. As of my last week weigh in, I was 245, and still loving the ability to push myself physically again.

Any tips that people may have for someone attempting this? I'll read back through the thread when I have a bit more time, but it is work time now.

[Eidolon]

Any tips that people may have for someone attempting this? I'll read back through the thread when I have a bit more time, but it is work time now.

I'd suggest picking a more structured weightlifting routine. I'm a big believer in freeweights over machines, and progressive resistance (adding more weight each time you do an exercise) with a lower rep-range (five sets of five reps is ideal for me with almost any given exercise besides deadlifts, but you might like something different). Everyone has their own angle when it comes to fitness and you're bound to get a variety of responses. I'm in a bit of a rush now so i'm just link you to http://liamrosen.com/fitness.html which should have basically all the information a beginner such as yourself will need, and it does an OK job of backing up what it says.

[Astral]

I read through that a few times and felt I got a bit more out of my most recent workout; thanks for the tips!

Higher weight (around 100 for most of the machines, 290-390 for the seated leg press), with a smaller rep and small rest period in between sets definitely felt like I was doing more than simply 20 reps at 40.

It was suggested by someone else that I try free weights for my reps/sets, but I'm going to stick to the machines for now. Once I'm comfortable with the machines, I'll start venturing out into using those, but I'm confident that I retain enough of the balance I gained in my martial arts years to be able to handle those.

[gogis]

You guys are missing out on the best workout machine of all. The rowing machine. Its like doing a squat every 4 seconds for an entire hour. Your hands might complain but after a few weeks they'll be so tough people will think you're a lumberjack.

I actually concur here. Rowing machines is probably best to overall fitness in strict space. Mostly because it's squat machine. And squat is awesome

[gogis]

Sigh. You know why I only linked articles that refuted your argument? Because I couldn't find any that actually supported it.

Your situation is entirely anecdotal, like you say, "Let's say for me". There's no study behind it, and there's nothing you prove you actually did what you're saying besides your own memory and desire to prove yourself right. That's not good enough for most of us. Also, eating more chicken, eggs, and whey protein isn't an untouched diet. That is, in fact, a fairly healthy bump in protein and fats for what you were doing. And you're surprised that you didn't get ripped from playing soccer? Welcome to only working certain muscles and playing sports. As for calories burned, playing soccer isn't the same as running constantly and consistently.


And your last statement is an outright lie. Running has the same after burn effect as lifting. It doesn't matter what you do, if your body is recovering from it, it's burning calories. As far as I can tell, there's little difference between running and lifting when it comes to after burn. Exactly how many calories are burned during recovery depends on the intensity of the workout, and any workout can be more intense.

Also funny, that marksdailyapple(one of my fav sites btw ) later in article shows how much benefit you gain from large muscle mass.

This has nothing to do what we're talking about, and I've mentioned several times that weight lifting is good for you. Just because I'm saying jogging burns more calories than weight lifting doesn't mean I'm against being well-muscled, and I'm well aware that having muscle gives you a lot of health benefits. However, in this conversation, we're specifically talking about calories burned.

Jogging is outright dangerous for overweight people. Weight ligting is not. How this could be hard to grasp?
And past-effect is fully anaerobic, read studies. I am done with pointing you to direct links.
General rule - aerobics burn fat in process, anaerobic - after. If you can't accept it - it's ok. I have same disputes with vegeterian prophets.

I still don't get why you dismiss my past, you push I am lying or what? I had much better results with anaerobics to lose weight. Thats my truth. Aerobics is heart health, period, it's obvious. Losing weight is another venture.

[Knight of Fools]

I'm really not sure why you keep arguing with me. I've read plenty of studies, and all of them say that any exercise has a post-burn effect. The only factor that consistently plays a role in the post-burn effect is the intensity and duration of the workout. Whether you run, lift, dance, or whatever, it doesn't matter. You do it harder and longer, and you'll have a better post-burn, regardless of whether the exercise was aerobic or anaerobic.

Now, there is evidence that lifting creates a bigger post-burn effect. Depending on the study, it ranges from "significantly larger" to "not noticeable". Muddling it further, it also changes from person to person. Now, more post-burn with lifting makes sense, because your body is building more muscle than recovering from an aerobic exercise would require.

My main issue with your argument is that you say jogging has no post-burn, and the fact that you dismiss any exercise other than lifting as a waste of time. The fact is that any exercise creates post-burn, and just because jogging doesn't create as much post-burn as weight lifting doesn't make it a waste of time. I've stated several times that it's better to have a well-rounded exercise routine than rely on a single exercise. By doing both aerobic and anaerobic exercises, you'll be getting the best of both worlds and look good while doing it.

The claim that aerobic exercise only works the heart and nothing else is wrong as well. You have to work some other part of your body in order to work your heart. The heart doesn't jog on its own. If you're running or biking, you'll be getting a decent lower body workout. You can even do aerobic exercise with weights and work your upper body. Naturally, you won't gain as much muscle mass during aerobic exercise, but saying that you won't work anything but your heart is ridiculous.

And quit bringing up the "jogging is bad for overweight people" as an argument against me, because I've acknowledged that so many times I'm beginning to wonder if you even read what I write. Early in the thread I even say that Draignean shouldn't jog until he loses more weight or sees a doctor for advice. Any exercise can be dangerous if done improperly, and running while overweight opens a lot of potential for improper exercise.


Finally, since this seems to be a major sticking point with you: Do you know why I dismiss your past? Because it's entirely anecdotal. Nothing that I post has a foundation in bro-science or anecdotal evidence. Everything I argue has articles, studies, and research behind it. You had better luck lifting weights than running? Congratulations, I'm happy for you. Seriously, I am. I love it when people make healthy life decisions, and you should always do what works best for you.

But taking something that worked for you without any scientific evidence or study to back it up and then touting it as the One True Way is misleading. We don't know how intense you playing soccer was compared to you going to the gym and lifting. We don't know what other diet changes you made and forgot about. We don't know if everyone who does what you did will have the same results. We don't even know if you're human or not. Just because you say something doesn't make it true, and your own recollection of what happens could be flawed as well. Even if you wrote down every single thing you ate and the intensity and duration of all your workouts before and after you transitioned to lifting and had folks verify that everything was true, we'd only know that it worked for you.

As it is, everything I find contradicts what you're claiming. I don't think you're lying, but I do think you're wrong.

[Gervassen]

Back in a more civilised age, we'd just row gogis and Knight of Fools out to an island and only one would return alive. None of this pansy-ass "my studies are better than your studies" science bullshit. One man is stronger, and he survives. My money would be on gogis.