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Author Topic: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)  (Read 10080 times)

Draignean

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2013, 07:55:07 pm »

Quote
Regular Plasma Loss: Tuesdays and Thursdays I give 900 grams of blood plasma. While this does have the effect of instantaneous weight loss, plus needing additional energy to regenerate the plasma, I have no idea what other effects it has.
This is probably a bad idea, and I'm surprised they even let you at the blood bank. If you do it every week that's about five times more often than it's recommended. Not only is that "instant weight loss" illusory (as it's mostly water), but you're probably putting a strain in your protein metabolism.
Do you get a general blood test afterwards, at least?

Plasma, not blood, and I'm doing it for the cash (It pays for my food budget) and the good of man, not weight loss. If it helps, that's a perk. Giving plasma is very different from giving blood. You give more fluid, but you don't actually lose (many) red blood cells. 

Short version: Two cycle process. The first cycle is a standard blood draw, used to a feel up a centrifuge bowl. The centrifuge spins up, separates your cells from the plasma medium, dumps the plasma into a collection bottle, and then starts the return cycle. The return cycle shoots everything that remained in the centrifuge back into you, thus preventing you from needing to regenerate whole blood. The two-step repeats for a couple times (four for me), and that's it. 

Since plasma is almost entirely water, you're able to donate twice a week as long as your donations are at least 24 hours apart and you pass the usual screenings for blood pressure, temp, and the battery of blood sample tests they get from finger pricks. 

ChairmanPoo is an actual doctor, and one who specialises in blood-related things (haematology? haematooncology?) IIRC. He's probably got the process and side-effects down, and would probably be very worth listening to.

Oh good. Well I just did a great deal of revealing just how crude my grasp is of the subject. Anyway, it's plasma, not whole blood. So, as far as I know (and as far as I've asked) it doesn't have the 6 week downtime you get from standard blood drives.

I'm definitely going to listen to him, I just want to have everything clear.

Quote
(haematology? haematooncology?)
Phlebotomy, I think.
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Grek

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2013, 09:18:20 pm »

It's actually 8 weeks for donations nowdays.
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Gervassen

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2013, 11:18:24 pm »

Make sure you eat breakfast and snacks.  Going without food puts your body into starvation mode, which makes you put weight on.

I can't tell this enough to people: That sweet taste you get from it? It's artificial crap but your body doesn't know that. Once you get that sweet taste on your tongue your brain sends messages to your body saying that it should be expecting a huge sugar rush soon.

Americans are funny. Always going on about how they are unfairly made fat. I drink 12 bottles of diet cola and eat once each day. I have partaken of Dr Pepper, and I love it, but it is a rare treat on the local shelves. I say go for broke! Drink all that Diet Dr Pepper up. All of it. Do it for those of us that cannot.

There's no insulin spike after drinking diet cola. That's essentially what people are trying to articulate when they talk vaguely about mysterious body processes warming up to receive sugar. It doesn't happen. Junk science. Case closed.

As for not eating regularly and starvation mode... by natural inclination, I only eat one large lunch each day, unless invited to dinner with colleagues. Three plates of greasy Jingjiang Rousi in one sitting. I'm rail-thin at an age where the rest of you will be tubbies when you reach it. Starvation mode is an American excuse for being Flabby MacFlabberson and eating more than daily needs, because "starvation" will make them fat.

My recommendation for OP is 300 gram of peanuts for a meal each day, if your budget is low. Peanuts are a great food, good protein, zero insulin response, and dirt cheap. Add meat where funds allow it. It's been a lot time since I needed strategise this concern, but a protein-sparing diet can be done on the cheap, I'm sure.

Lastly, and most importantly, Lyle McDonald. Nuf said.

As for exercise, work up to a one-handed push-up. Do this by starting normal push-ups and moving one hand farther away each session until its contribution to the push is negligible. Switch sides, of course. Also, try handstands for time against a wall. Wall-sits. Pull-ups or hangs for time, or negatives, if necessary. Dips, dips, dips! I love dips!

Doing 500 sets of 50 push-ups is just an endurance activity, and you know what marathon runners look like. Progression must be measure in an increased load on your muscles, not increased time working out.

There are some good books and coaches on this subject, but it's been ages since I didn't have a facility... I think Pavel had some bodyweight stuff. I recall a book called Never Gymless. These will get you where you need to go, caveman.
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Max White

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2013, 11:37:35 pm »

It's actually 8 weeks for donations nowdays.
8 weeks for you guys? We have 12 weeks.
Although it is my understanding that they try to project requirements and make limitations so that donations are just over the required amount, ensuring most lives saved with minimal possible adverse effects.
Lower patient to donor ratio = longer cool down time.

Grek

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2013, 01:15:31 am »

Gervassen's advice is very very bad.

Eating only peanuts is mindbogglingly terrible nutrition and doing 25000 pushups a day, especially one-handed pushups, will permanently damage your arm joints if you somehow manage to avoid collapsing from exhaustion first. Even at 1 pushup per second, that's about 7 hours a day of nothing but pushups.
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Knight of Fools

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2013, 01:32:02 am »

Americans are funny. Always going on about how they are unfairly made fat.
...
Starvation mode is an American excuse for being Flabby MacFlabberson and eating more than daily needs, because "starvation" will make them fat.
...
I'm rail-thin at an age where the rest of you will be tubbies when you reach it.
...
Lastly, and most importantly, Lyle McDonald. Nuf said.

Seriously, dude? If you want to circle jerk about how Americans are fat take it somewhere else. The whole attitude of your post is insulting and, quite frankly, full of myths that lead to weigh gain. Most of your facts are anecdotal, contrary to common knowledge in the health community, or just blatantly false.


I drink 12 bottles of diet cola and eat once each day. I have partaken of Dr Pepper, and I love it, but it is a rare treat on the local shelves. I say go for broke! Drink all that Diet Dr Pepper up. All of it. Do it for those of us that cannot.

There's no insulin spike after drinking diet cola. That's essentially what people are trying to articulate when they talk vaguely about mysterious body processes warming up to receive sugar. It doesn't happen. Junk science. Case closed.

Artificial Sweeteners do encourage weight gain. The insulin thing just comes from the fact that rats do produce insulin when they eat something sweet. The difference in humans is that our bodies release insulin only when the bloodstream actually has sugar in it.

If you're trying to lose weight or don't want to gain it, best to avoid artificial sweeteners.


As for not eating regularly and starvation mode... by natural inclination, I only eat one large lunch each day, unless invited to dinner with colleagues. Three plates of greasy Jingjiang Rousi in one sitting. I'm rail-thin at an age where the rest of you will be tubbies when you reach it. Starvation mode is an American excuse for being Flabby MacFlabberson and eating more than daily needs, because "starvation" will make them fat.

Eating less often will slow down your metabolism and encourage weight gain, especially if it's not something your body is used to. What that means is that your body has less energy and starts storing whatever food you do eat as fat instead of converting it into energy or muscle. Eating less often is the worst thing you want to do if you're trying to lose weight while exercising, because you won't have as much energy to push yourself to levels that would make a caloric deficit.

Contrary to popular belief, exercising does not "turn fat into muscle". Muscle is designed for moving your body. Fat is just stored energy. When you're eating less often, even if you're eating larger meals, your body does go into a starvation mode where it thinks that food is scarce (Because why else would you be eating less?), so it prefers storing energy as fat instead of making muscles out of it. Muscles are also the first thing your body consumes when it's starving (So the fat can be used in an emergency), so one meal a day is not a great idea if you want to actually get "loincloth fit". You'll end up losing more muscle than fat.

You don't want to go the opposite extreme and just snack all day, either, since that leaves you unsatisfied. Generally you want to eat two or three meals a day. You'll feel more satisfied if you eat more in one sitting and your body will be more willing to put energy towards unimportant functions, such as thinking clearly and creating muscle.


As for exercise, work up to a one-handed push-up. Do this by starting normal push-ups and moving one hand farther away each session until its contribution to the push is negligible. Switch sides, of course. Also, try handstands for time against a wall. Wall-sits. Pull-ups or hangs for time, or negatives, if necessary. Dips, dips, dips! I love dips!

Doing 500 sets of 50 push-ups is just an endurance activity, and you know what marathon runners look like. Progression must be measure in an increased load on your muscles, not increased time working out.

One-armed push ups can be dangerous and can cause serious damage to your joints and muscles, especially for someone who weighs over 300 pounds and is, at best, in decent shape. Heck, it's dangerous for someone who's in great shape and weighs half that. Handstands can also be dangerous without a safe place to do it in or a partner to help out. It's definitely not something I would recommend for someone just getting started with exercise. It's best to work up to being able to handle your own body weight comfortably, not starting out with it.

Also, marathon runners look like marathon runners because they run marathons, not because they do 25,000 push ups every day. Regardless of how much weight or how many repetitions you do, as long as you're going beyond what your muscles are accustomed to they will grow. Yes, more weight will work your muscles harder, but so will more repetitions. Going with higher repetitions naturally gives you better tone, though, which is important for being "loincloth fit". If Draignean gave us a good indication of his current state of fitness that's mostly what he needs to aim for.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 01:34:57 am by Knight of Fools »
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Gervassen

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2013, 02:27:30 am »

Sorry, starvation mode does not exist, at least in the timeframe of 48 hours. British sailors had mess once a day, and they would eat pounds of bread and salt-beef at that single mess. That huge empire that the sun itself could not encompass? That Trafalgar? It was accomplished by big strappin' lads that ate one meal a day, and whose physiques would make you look like a melted wax figurine in a naked comparison.

I suggest you get hip to PSMF, or Protein-Sparing Modified Fasts, which is essentially what the OP needs to achieve his stated goals by his deadline. He does not need pedestrian advice from the pages of Cosmo: how to lose 10 lbs and keep it off for a new you! Indstead, he needs to lose 80 pounds in 10 months while sparing muscle mass. It's been done before, but not on advice like yours.

I can't figure out why you started in on "muscle turns to fat" myths. I don't know anyone who still believes that. It's like you wanted to bring the conversation into the shallow end of the pool, where you feel confidently authoritative: debunking really old myths.

OP has benched over 300 lbs, and his tendons and ligaments are fine with the things suggested. You'll find those exercises touted by established fitness authorities. I recommended some good books, but apparently you know more than published authors in this field.
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Gervassen

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2013, 02:41:17 am »

Gervassen's advice is very very bad.

Eating only peanuts is mindbogglingly terrible nutrition and doing 25000 pushups a day, especially one-handed pushups, will permanently damage your arm joints if you somehow manage to avoid collapsing from exhaustion first. Even at 1 pushup per second, that's about 7 hours a day of nothing but pushups.

Obviously, I didn't say either of those. I said peanuts were a good base food for cheap nutrition, and that meat should be substituted in as funds allowed. I said he shouldn't do 500 sets of 50 pushups, so you're arguing against what I said he shouldn't do. I feel your embarassment, and I forgive you.
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Vector

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2013, 02:59:18 am »

Different people need different things.  I can't personally operate on a single meal a day.
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Gervassen

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2013, 03:16:30 am »

That's true. That's a valid personal issue that would steer people away from one meal a day.

I'm not saying once-a-day is best, but that I never had ill effects from it, and others have managed to lose a lot of weight on one or two meals. Some people expressly choose fewer meals in order to aid weight loss, and they call it intermittent fasting, but for me, it simply works well with my life. Being horrible at cooking, I like to eat at restaurants, but eating three times a day means transit times and waiting to be served three times a day. I save at least an hour and a half of my life each day by eating one large meal.
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Knight of Fools

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2013, 03:46:54 am »

Intermittent fasting hasn't been proven to be any more effective than proper diet or exercise, and comes with its own set of problems and risks. Yeah, it works, but so does exercising more or eating less.


Gervassen's advice is very very bad.

Eating only peanuts is mindbogglingly terrible nutrition and doing 25000 pushups a day, especially one-handed pushups, will permanently damage your arm joints if you somehow manage to avoid collapsing from exhaustion first. Even at 1 pushup per second, that's about 7 hours a day of nothing but pushups.

Obviously, I didn't say either of those. I said peanuts were a good base food for cheap nutrition, and that meat should be substituted in as funds allowed. I said he shouldn't do 500 sets of 50 pushups, so you're arguing against what I said he shouldn't do. I feel your embarassment, and I forgive you.

I'm sorry, let me quote you. Because you were saying eat nothing but peanuts and meat for one meal a day... While saying only eat one meal a day. Lookie:

As for not eating regularly and starvation mode... by natural inclination, I only eat one large lunch each day, unless invited to dinner with colleagues. Three plates of greasy Jingjiang Rousi in one sitting. I'm rail-thin at an age where the rest of you will be tubbies when you reach it. Starvation mode is an American excuse for being Flabby MacFlabberson and eating more than daily needs, because "starvation" will make them fat.

My recommendation for OP is 300 gram of peanuts for a meal each day, if your budget is low. Peanuts are a great food, good protein, zero insulin response, and dirt cheap. Add meat where funds allow it. It's been a lot time since I needed strategise this concern, but a protein-sparing diet can be done on the cheap, I'm sure.

So don't go badmouthing folks just because they give your words right back to you. If you were misunderstood, clarify.


Sorry, starvation mode does not exist, at least in the timeframe of 48 hours. British sailors had mess once a day, and they would eat pounds of bread and salt-beef at that single mess. That huge empire that the sun itself could not encompass? That Trafalgar? It was accomplished by big strappin' lads that ate one meal a day, and whose physiques would make you look like a melted wax figurine in a naked comparison.

Anecdotal, with a heavy appeal to false cause. The British weren't successful because they fed their sailors one meal a day, they were successful in spite of that. Need I remind you that scurvy was still a huge problem back then? It wasn't until the 1790's that they actually got around to giving rations that would keep them healthier, and that was long after the Britain was on its decline.

Also, I don't see why you have to keep on attacking my weight, unless you're desperately trying to prove yourself with ad hominem. Need I remind you that skinny isn't necessarily healthy?

That and I don't really want to look like a sick, starved sailor from the eighteenth century, thanks.


I suggest you get hip to PSMF, or Protein-Sparing Modified Fasts, which is essentially what the OP needs to achieve his stated goals by his deadline. He does not need pedestrian advice from the pages of Cosmo: how to lose 10 lbs and keep it off for a new you! Indstead, he needs to lose 80 pounds in 10 months while sparing muscle mass. It's been done before, but not on advice like yours.

We've discussed reasonable and healthy diet changes, and all you've said is eat nothing but peanuts and maybe some meat. We'd like to keep Draignean alive and healthy here, a major part of which is a balanced diet. You won't be healthy by overloading on proteins, and you'll stay healthier with a balanced diet.

There are a lot of ways to lose weight, and most of them aren't healthy, including what you've been pushing.


I can't figure out why you started in on "muscle turns to fat" myths. I don't know anyone who still believes that. It's like you wanted to bring the conversation into the shallow end of the pool, where you feel confidently authoritative: debunking really old myths.

I started talking about it because it's related to the scarcity mode our bodies go into. You're basically saying that you need to halve your intake while doubling your output. Our bodies don't work like that, and they will react badly. You can't do push ups until your fat all melts away into the muscle beneath - You have to burn the fat while maintaining and growing your muscles. If you fail to maintain a healthy diet that balances fat loss and muscle gain, besides the weight concerns I already addressed, you'd have to deal with hunger, lethargy, depression, and irritability. All while exercising and trying to keep a full time job.

And again, the entirety of your evidence is based on what you eat on a daily basis. You may not need that much food with whatever lifestyle you're leading, but I can guarantee that Draignean will if he's going to stay healthy while losing weight and maintaining muscle.


OP has benched over 300 lbs, and his tendons and ligaments are fine with the things suggested. You'll find those exercises touted by established fitness authorities. I recommended some good books, but apparently you know more than published authors in this field.

I don't think you understood me. I never said they were bad exercises. But you shouldn't try and do that kind of stuff if you're not prepared for it, even if you're in decent shape. It's something you work up towards, not something you expect to do on day one.

Also, benching distributes the weight between your two arms and is easier to control and balance than one-handed exercises. You're saying that because each arm could lift 150 pounds in unison, one arm alone could easily balance just under 300 pounds and lift it. Think about that for a second.
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Max White

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2013, 06:35:48 am »

In regard to benching...
While you can lift more with bars than bells, I still prefer bells because it makes much, much more use of stabilizers. Strength is good, but what good is it without the supporting systems to use it effectively? While you might not end up being able to lift as much as lifting bars, you will be able to actually use the muscles much more effectively in every day use, and also in my opinion it looks a lot sexier having a thinner, balanced build, than a bulking mass.

Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2013, 10:02:42 am »

Also, benching distributes the weight between your two arms and is easier to control and balance than one-handed exercises. You're saying that because each arm could lift 150 pounds in unison, one arm alone could easily balance just under 300 pounds and lift it. Think about that for a second.

*Snicker* I didn't give him the time of day. Armchair adonises are the best advice. Gonna have to tell the OP to take what he has to say with much salt, other than the peanut bit. You were actually accurate about that, Gerv. Otherwise I suggest dipping your toes into http://www.bodybuilding.com/ before you continue to troll this topic with anecdotal 'I'm not fat because I eat one meal a day!' and harmful 'Drink all the soda you can!' advice, mate.

Cue attack on my weight: I'm 220 pounds, 40 years old, and can bench press you and your first relatives before I have my morning coffee. So your 'advice' [telling Americans they're fat because they're fat Americans, suggesting someone trying to lose weight to work their way up to one-handed pushups] is easy to ascertain in worth.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 10:07:18 am by Mictlantecuhtli »
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gimlet

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2013, 01:46:12 pm »

Quote
we still aren't allowed to eat while on the floor

That's a bummer, but just to make sure you're not not missing a possibility - do you have any other breaks during the day?  Possibly you could swing by the refrigerator (or wherever you store your lunch) and wolf down at least a couple handfuls of something like nuts or dates or raisins or whatever.  Or a mixture, like gorp (but lean towards the healthier bits).  If even that's out, maybe keep a small bag of that stuff in a pocket, and sneak a snack when you go to the bathroom...

PS - Try to find unsalted nuts, or at least try to wipe some of the salt off - there's so much salt on most nuts that if you eat anything much more than a thimblefull you get a scary amount of sodium.
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Gervassen

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Re: Help me get Loincloth fit in ten months (serious)
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2013, 03:01:42 pm »

Cue attack on my weight: I'm 220 pounds, 40 years old, and can bench press you and your first relatives before I have my morning coffee. So your 'advice' [telling Americans they're fat because they're fat Americans, suggesting someone trying to lose weight to work their way up to one-handed pushups] is easy to ascertain in worth.

I know a lot of guys pushing your age and your body weight, Mict, and all of them think that it's mostly muscle. I make it a point never to shatter their body image delusions, because I don't want them to burst into tears of horrified realisation. No one wants to spectate that wet t-shirt contest, big guy.

I'm not sure what to make of your fantasy that involves bench-pressing me and my near relations, but if my family ever travels to America on holiday, then... uhh... I guess... hrmm... we can call on you for a lift from the airport?

I have given some recommendations to the OP for diet books and gymless exercise manuals. Lots of people broscience-bombing my comments, but not having jack or shit to say about the books recommended. That's the meat of the matter. Dropping bb.com into this thread is very pointless for a guy explicitly saying that he doesn't have gym access. The first thing that they would tell him there is get gym access, because they prioritise swoleness. Gymless workouts won't get you that quite that far. OP doesn't have to take what I say with any salt at all, though. He can simply read the books, whose authors would be familiar names on your bb.com, but then my last visit was back when Aziz still gave that place some class and aesthetics.

Lyle McDonald -- especially Rapid Fat Loss Handbook
Pavel Tsatsouline -- Especially Naked Warrior in your case.
Never Gymless

Or perhaps on a torrent site near you. They're popular books.
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