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Author Topic: Star Ruler 2 [7/24/2018 - Now Open Source!]  (Read 85538 times)

Firgof Umbra

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #405 on: April 13, 2015, 12:16:40 pm »

Quote
two shipsets, 5 races, small amount of racial/goverment/social traits

And where are you playing this game from?

There are four shipsets and 7 races (Terrakin, Feyh, Oko, Hoonan, Saar, Mono, Nylli) and we entirely eschewed racial traits months ago (Now it's Government/FTL/Life).  It should be impossible to obtain a build of the game from that long ago unless you're a pirate or have just refused to update your game for months on end - even post launch.  If you obtained the copy of the game legitimately and for all you know are up-to-date please tell me who you got it from so I can yell at them.

I'm laughing very hard at your suggestion that Star Ruler 1's UI is 'worse' than SR2's.  I mean it's your opinion and all but let's compare the two, shall we?  Just ask a few questions at both games:  Where are your important planets?  Where are your borders?  Who is trading with who?  What's going on in the universe right now?  Where are all your fleets?  How are all your fleets doing presently?  How large is any particular fleet - do they have escorts?  What types?  What are you researching right now?  How many treaties/votes are currently waiting for your approval/disapproval/action?  What kinds of treaties/votes are they?

Star Ruler 1

Star Ruler 2
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 01:11:48 pm by Firgof Umbra »
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forsaken1111

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #406 on: April 13, 2015, 12:21:42 pm »

Have to agree. He likely pirated an old version.

I'm laughing very hard at your suggestion that Star Ruler 1's UI is 'worse' than SR2's.  That is objectively false in both terms aesthetic and usability.
And this, so much this. I loved SR1 but goddamn was the UI obtuse. Dwarf Fortress is actually EASIER to find information in that SR1.
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Lossmar

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #407 on: April 13, 2015, 12:43:47 pm »

Quote
There are four shipsets and 7 races (Terrakin, Feyh, Oko, Hoonan, Saar, Mono, Nylli) and we entirely eschewed racial traits months ago (Now it's Government/FTL/Life).  It should be impossible to obtain a build of the game from that long ago unless you're a pirate or have just refused to update your game for months on end - even post launch.  If you obtained the copy of the game legitimately and for all you know are up-to-date please tell me who you got it from so I can yell at them.

That number was a rough estimate recalled from memory..

Its not like its hard to find a newest pirate version anyway, its not 2002 anymore.

Quote
I'm laughing very hard at your suggestion that Star Ruler 1's UI is 'worse' than SR2's.  I mean it's your opinion and all but let's compare the two, shall we?  Just ask a few questions at both games:  Where are your important planets?  Where are your borders?  Who is trading with who?  What's going on in the universe right now?  Where are all your fleets?  How are all your fleets doing presently?  How large is any particular fleet - do they have escorts?  What types?  What are you researching right now?  How many treaties/votes are currently waiting for your approval/disapproval/action?  What kinds of treaties/votes are they?
I never said anything about how obtuse or useful the SR2 UI is. I was talking about how it LOOKS.

When im playing SR1 i feel like a goddamn Admiral of intergalactic navy, while in SR2 its like a playing Farmville or other browser thing. Matter of personal preference - nothing will top Aurora regardless.

Quote
Have to agree. He likely pirated an old version.
See up - its not 2002 anymore, getting newest pirate version is not hard. And that was simple figure of speech on my part.
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How to cure gaming industry in couple easy steps :
1. Stop preordering games.
2. Stop hyping games that have nothing to show except pre-rendered hype trailer.
3. Always distrust corporations.
4. Always rage at criminal DLC , microtransactions, pre-order bonuses and other semi legal practices.

Firgof Umbra

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #408 on: April 13, 2015, 12:49:11 pm »

Quote
That number was a rough estimate recalled from memory..

It was an exact number recalled from a play session where, in fact, there were 2 shipsets and 5 races and, at the same time, racial attributes such as Racial and Social traits.  I know the exact build range your memory is based off of - you didn't just 'rough estimate' the fact that there were Racial and Social traits - and it's a very old build which was deployed on CS.RIN.RU ages (months) ago.

So regardless of your 'piracy is easy these days man' well, it doesn't matter because you still didn't get the most recent copy despite them making it easy for you.  Just admit you pirated it, admit you pirated an old build, and admit that you dislike color of any sort.  (That last part is optional; I'm being facetious)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 12:56:03 pm by Firgof Umbra »
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Lossmar

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #409 on: April 13, 2015, 12:54:55 pm »

Quote
It was an exact number recalled from a play session where, in fact, there were 2 shipsets and 5 races and, at the same time, racial attributes such as Racial and Social traits).  I know the exact build range your memory is based off of - you didn't just 'rough estimate' the fact that there were Racial and Social traits - and it's a very old build which was deployed on CS.RIN.RU ages (months) ago.

It was recalled from memory because last time i played this game was a while ago because this game simply haven't caught my attention just like Stardrive and Horizon.
Its not as "meh" as Sid Meiers Starships but its pretty darn close.

And its exact thing that had happened with SR1 - number of racial traits, shipsets and races was really bare bones comapred to say Galactic Armoury.
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How to cure gaming industry in couple easy steps :
1. Stop preordering games.
2. Stop hyping games that have nothing to show except pre-rendered hype trailer.
3. Always distrust corporations.
4. Always rage at criminal DLC , microtransactions, pre-order bonuses and other semi legal practices.

Firgof Umbra

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #410 on: April 13, 2015, 01:01:04 pm »

If that's so, why haven't you updated for months on end?  If you were in the beta build you must've gotten at least 3 announcements of major patches to the game.  At the very least you should've gotten a notification from Steam when we transitioned from EA to launched that a new build was available.

If you played it a while ago and are just giving your impressions now - I'm not sure why you're giving (early) Early Access impressions for a Released product.  It's fine to have an opinion and help inform others of your thoughts and advice for their purchasing decisions, but you're doing yourself no favors by using really out of date information; it'd just lead to confusion if anyone started talking about mechanics of the game with you.

The racial traits may have lessened in number but have significantly grown in impact they have on the game.  Adding in "+50% to Beams" is easy [and potentially unbalanced] (GA had a lot of these options because they're easy).  Adding in "You don't utilize planet surfaces in any way, build armed habitat orbitals in space to colonize planets, don't care about resource pressure caps, and colonize planets with a mothership who - despite being very powerful in the early game - can only engage its weapon systems in systems where you own at least one planet" is significantly harder while also being much more interesting. 

With nearly each of these choices having a much larger and more pronounced impact on the game than the combined total of the impact of all the prior race options, I'm not sure I agree with you that it's "bare bones".  I think these options have even more impact than GA had on SR1 - also SR1 shipped with 2 shipsets.  SR2 has shipped with 4 (so far).  GA added [iirc] 2.  SR2 = GA in shipsets.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 01:20:29 pm by Firgof Umbra »
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forsaken1111

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #411 on: April 13, 2015, 01:02:35 pm »

I'm amused by the continued use of Stardrive as a model for this genre. Stardrive was released in such a terribly incomplete state that some of the events didn't even have resolutions iirc, and the second iteration which was released recently is just a silly (though fun) recreation of master of orion 2.
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Bremen

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #412 on: April 13, 2015, 02:25:37 pm »

I'm laughing very hard at your suggestion that Star Ruler 1's UI is 'worse' than SR2's.

I'm laughing even harder at the suggest that it's UI is worse that Aurora's. Don't get me wrong, Aurora is one of my favorite games, but it's less a UI and more a spreadsheet you edit to play the game.
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Frumple

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #413 on: April 13, 2015, 02:43:15 pm »

Hey, don't diss on spreadsheets like that. A properly setup one is very user friendly and intuitive to use. Implying they're necessarily as bad as aurora is just misguided :P
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umiman

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #414 on: April 13, 2015, 05:10:41 pm »

Aurora's UI is basically like trying to coordinate the Apollo moon landings with a graphing calculator.

I played a new game with 8 AI enemies on hard difficulty. It was... interesting.

I'm not too sure how exactly they can expand so fast. I could barely keep up. I don't think they're cheating as it says the final difficulty level is the cheaty one so they must be doing something I'm not doing. If only I knew what it was...

They're a lot happier to attack me on hard. Good thing. Also they don't take any shit on the global diplomacy stage. Trying to host the senate had a crazy war that was something like -40 to 41 votes and I still lost. I have no clue why some of the AI voted to help me there either, would be nice to know their reasoning. I also noticed that if I launched a vote and then bombarded it so it went +21 immediately or something like that, the AI won't even try to fight it.

Another thing is I noticed the AI is very eager to surrender. About halfway through the game when the size 600 ships started appearing, most of the AI factions had surrendered to either me or the other major player (Oko something). I didn't really pay it any mind until I noticed one of the AI that I was allied with and was actually behind me far away from any combat decided to completely surrender too. Why? He was in zero danger. I don't think he lost a single ship.

So I thought, well, if the AI can do that to my ally, why don't I do that to his? So I asked some relatively large third player way off in the corner of the map to surrender to me. And he actually agreed. What the fuck? So on a whim I asked my main rival (Oko something) to surrender and thankfully he declined. Then I annexed one of his systems and he agreed to it. What? He was at least as powerful as me, and with all his vassals he was easily twice my size, why would he surrender?

Astral

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #415 on: April 14, 2015, 01:28:02 am »

I do wish there was some option, if there isn't already, to prevent annexation (IE: Full surrender) between AI, or in general. It gets a bit annoying in The Expanse map type (one of my preferred modes) to see two races that aren't even near each other and have never declared war, or really done much against one another, suddenly own half the map because of a quirk in programming that makes them immediately accept because of a few arbitrary numbers reaching a certain point. Stardrive had a similar issue, and it was poorly implemented to boot.

Having a bit of fun playing Normal bots again on my laptop, and stomping them to some extent with the Mechanoid race (absolutely the best race for my playstyle, and more than a bit overpowered once it gets rolling, but very weak in the early game.) The game actually ran very smooth despite the diminished specs of the machine, and the fact that I had built a 2048 size ship that ate through all the aged size 1-4 support ships with its 8k capacity... then proceeded to stomp a bunch of remnants with lasery death spewing from nearly a thousand ships at once with negligible framerate loss.

Still awaiting more subsystems that can make better use of the different unit orders/behaviors, though. It only makes so much sense to have artillery style ships that are limited to their (fairly effective, mind you) missiles, the only support weapon with a decent range, at least until you get the generic range upgrades and you're sniping enemies with lasers halfway across the solar system. Subsystem modifiers are good, but different base systems should have a different feel to start. Take EVE, for example; within each class of weapon (energy based, hybrid turrets, projectile based, missile based, drones) there are generally things on the scale of damage vs range vs rate of fire vs accuracy in general terms. Beams vs pulse lasers, railguns vs blasters, artillery vs autocannons, assault missiles/rockets vs generic missiles... the list goes on. Subsystems should build upon those further, allowing you to customize whether you want a case of Jack of All Stats or Crippling Overspecialization in your fleets.

Speaking of drones, I hope something like that comes into play later, either as defense (with repair or shield drones able to assist damaged ships launched from the flagship hangar, or even being fitted on support ships but with a cost similar to having supply on them) offense (direct attacks made independent of the carrier), or support (jamming enemy weaponry, negating enemy shields via EMP, etc).

My two cents on the whole "Is it good" debate that seems to have taken over the last few pages: Absolutely. It's a great game, and I've enjoyed sinking many hours into it. It does, in some ways lack the sense of scale that SR1 presented. SR1 had a bit more bare bones to it, but let the player fill in the abstracted systems with a bit of creativity. While I do wish that it had gone more along the lines of the Galactic Armory mod's additions as fully supported gameplay (more for the screwing around with stupid and crazy designs), I'm not disappointed in it being a different game entirely.

It stands up well in its own right as a space based 4x, and while it's currently considered "released" I feel like it still has a way to go to completion, and hope that modders don't have to fill in the gaps quite as much as in SR1. At the very least, it has been a fun and playable early access and release, which can't be said of many games in a similar state.

I'm amused by the continued use of Stardrive as a model for this genre. Stardrive was released in such a terribly incomplete state that some of the events didn't even have resolutions iirc, and the second iteration which was released recently is just a silly (though fun) recreation of master of orion 2.
I haven't had a chance to play much of Stardrive 2, but I can agree that I felt Stardrive was abandoned far too shortly after its creation. Modders have taken the game and run with it, but even then there's only so much they can do due to limitations of the engine. I've seen approved reverse engineering of the .exe for the game that enables them to modify things that were otherwise hard coded and unfixable previously. It's still ridiculous to have a game sell for $30 and then only release an incomplete mess of a game before starting work on version 2 while leaving other people, unpaid, to fix the game for you. I enjoyed the game, to be sure, but it could have been much more than it ended up being.

Stardrive 2's trait list immediately brought to mind MOO2, and if they managed to somehow screw MOO2 up I'm asking for a refund.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 01:34:46 am by Astral »
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Majestic7

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #416 on: April 14, 2015, 03:16:14 am »

Piracy has its place; I bought SR2 because I tested it first as an illegal copy and liked it. I wasn't impressed much by SR1 to be honest, so I wanted to try SR2 before buying it. I have no idea if there is a demo available now, this was some weeks before release. 

I enjoy SR2, but like the previous poster said, technology tree is a little boring. You don't get much in the way of new toys and what you get is just plain better. Like ordinary cannons vs Myon cannons. It would be interesting to have a few different options, a bit like the choice between missiles and torpedoes.

Re: Stardrive, yeah, the first one was a disappointment in how it was abandoned. The second Stardrive seems solid based on playing it six hours total or so. Only thing I don't like is the needless x-com lite combat, it seems like unnecessary clutter in the game.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:19:04 am by Majestic7 »
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Astral

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #417 on: April 14, 2015, 03:44:51 pm »

Heh, I crashed the game pretty hard by attempting to create an orbital frame, then placing a ringworld on top of that. There goes that idea...

Edit: Then later crashed the game toying around in the ship builder/test room. I went along the XKCD lines of "What if we added more power?" and made two different ship types; one with support (Beamy Death) and one without (Battlehex. Yes, I'm original with my names). The Beamy Death actually lost, despite not giving any support ships to the Battlehex, likely because I hadn't done more than give it a bunch of largely-ineffective-alone forward facing beam weapons, while the Battlehex had a point laser at each 90 degree angle and was bristling with 3 space rocket pods. The Beamy Death with its graviton engines just didn't have enough turn rate to even think about facing the enemy ship before exploding in a blaze of rockets.

So some tweaks later and I just said screw it and placed multiple Beamy Deaths directly "below" the Battlehex, which was able to destroy it by virtue of 2:1 numbers. For shits and giggles, I scaled up both designs by adding a 0 at the end each iteration. Then I decided to add support ships. But I didn't have any on hand, so I added the default Heavy Gunship with a size of 16.

Okay, I'll admit it was cool watching the waves of gunships circling out in a neat pattern, but I guess I must've hit the unit limit or something along the lines of an index out of bounds, because the game eventually choked and died.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 03:32:58 am by Astral »
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What Darwin was too polite to say, my friends, is that we came to rule the Earth not because we were the smartest, or even the meanest, but because we have always been the craziest, most murderous motherfuckers in the jungle. -Stephen King's Cell
It's viable to keep a dead rabbit in the glove compartment to take a drink every now and then.

Morrigi

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #418 on: April 15, 2015, 11:52:47 am »

Heh, I crashed the game pretty hard by attempting to create an orbital frame, then placing a ringworld on top of that. There goes that idea...

Edit: Then later crashed the game toying around in the ship builder/test room. I went along the XKCD lines of "What if we added more power?" and made two different ship types; one with support (Beamy Death) and one without (Battlehex. Yes, I'm original with my names). The Beamy Death actually lost, despite not giving any support ships to the Battlehex, likely because I hadn't done more than give it a bunch of largely-ineffective-alone forward facing beam weapons, while the Battlehex had a point laser at each 90 degree angle and was bristling with 3 space rocket pods. The Beamy Death with its graviton engines just didn't have enough turn rate to even think about facing the enemy ship before exploding in a blaze of rockets.

So some tweaks later and I just said screw it and placed multiple Beamy Deaths directly "below" the Battlehex, which was able to destroy it by virtue of 2:1 numbers. For shits and giggles, I scaled up both designs by adding a 0 at the end each iteration. Then I decided to add support ships. But I didn't have any on hand, so I added the default Heavy Gunship with a size of 16.

Okay, I'll admit it was cool watching the waves of gunships circling out in a neat pattern, but I guess I must've hit the unit limit or something along the lines of an index out of bounds, because the game eventually choked and died.
Considering that the game can handle over 14,000 ships in combat, the second one was probably either a random crash or your system.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Star Ruler 2 [4/2/2015 - Now available on GOG!]
« Reply #419 on: April 15, 2015, 11:56:15 am »

My current support ship is a size 1 rocket pod with nothing but a rocket launcher, command, and engines. They do so much damage, and being size one you get so many of them. Since ships can't multitarget they alpha-strike the size 1 rocket pods one at a time which takes forever and by then I've sandblasted them to death with tiny missiles.

The flagship is just a big warehouse in space filled with missiles.
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