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[a1s]

"I agree with the principle of this motion,
"I support the Conclave Diplomacy "

"You know the drill, Aye, Nay or Abstain."

[Leafsnail]

"We have plenty of supplies from our general worlds and almost no ships to supply.  Without ships our armies are entirely useless and the Conclave will walk all over us, blasting our planets to pieces.  Any new forgeworlds will only serve to help the Conclave after they have taken over all of our territories.

Outposts are also close to pointless.  They are, quite simply, inferior to shipyards.  You cannot use an outpost to counterattack later or change the area they're defending, and if there are no ships remaining in a sector outposts become totally useless (meaning that shipyards are better because they can continue fighting to the last ship).  They also use up engineers - our most scarce resource.  Every forgeworld or outpost built is four fewer ships in our fleet, and when we have literally four ships in the entire galaxy waste is not a luxury we can afford to have.

Concentrating our activities in the Cluster, or possibly two sectors, will allow us to at least hold on to some planets.  How do you intend to defend the entire galaxy with a fleet of four ships, against a fleet numbering over 30?  If we build only shipyards and concentrate our defenses in the cluster, we can have a battle of 12 against a quarter of the Conclave's fleet - a likely victory that will allow us to rally and continue building up our offences.  If we do not, then we will fight four different battles at terrible, terrible odds, and almost certainly lose all of them, and the entire empire with it.

If you disagree with my proposal, then I suggest you begin thinking of a way to defend all four sectors of the galaxy with only four ships (or twelve if you realize the folly of building forge worlds and outposts).  Long term considerations do not even come into it - any plan that will allow us to survive for even a single quarter would be sufficient at this point, as if we maintain the status quo our last shipyard will be slagged or captured and the Empire will collapse imminently.."

[Leafsnail]

Vote Aye on Conclave Diplomacy
Vote Nay on the Shipyard and Outpost Prestige Amendment

"If we want to maintain presence in any non-Cluster sectors, I believe we'll need to go undercover as much as possible.  I would therefore like to create a new colony, and by my count doing so would not reduce the number of shipyards we are able to build this quarter as we have 13 engineers between us.

I am therefore looking for two engineers and two psi experts, and I am prepared to negotiate a trade with 1 military and 4 labour experts for them, or to share control of/the resources of the resulting planet with the trader."

[Rolepgeek]

After dealing with his suit and having a servant clean up the broken tile, the Gerenbede spoke again, calmer. He was also handed a chart by one of his servants. "Let us view the math. Our enemy has nine general worlds that we know of, and sent a fleet of some 24 or more ships against us, and three armies. This implies that they had around 27 to 30 supplies with them. Having seized a Forgeworld, and five general worlds, we have depleted their stocks tremendously, unless they had a wild excess. This means that they will be, at most, able to send some 18 ships this quarter. If we are so very focused on protecting the Cluster, than Outposts are an excellent idea, as we have plenty of military commanders and engineers. They require no supplies, and thus two of them can do twice the job of defense as a shipyard-forgeworld combination. I highly suggest the voting on an emperor be finished before action is taken, but I also believe we must find the enemy worlds, particularly in the Cluster. And we must have Outposts! With so few ships, they are even more important! Who knows how many worlds might be taken this quarter, how many supplies lost? Reddes can supply the last shipyard, but we must have outposts to assist our paltry fleet in the coming months or they stand no chance."

[GreatWyrmGold]

"For the record...I do not think we need or should retreat to the Core. Perhaps if this turns out to be the pattern and not an anomaly."

Again, donate any Intelligence I have to the Empire.
Abstain from the vote for Emperor for the moment.

[Leafsnail]

After dealing with his suit and having a servant clean up the broken tile, the Gerenbede spoke again, calmer. He was also handed a chart by one of his servants. "Let us view the math. Our enemy has nine general worlds that we know of, and sent a fleet of some 24 or more ships against us, and three armies. This implies that they had around 27 to 30 supplies with them. Having seized a Forgeworld, and five general worlds, we have depleted their stocks tremendously, unless they had a wild excess. This means that they will be, at most, able to send some 18 ships this quarter. If we are so very focused on protecting the Cluster, than Outposts are an excellent idea, as we have plenty of military commanders and engineers. They require no supplies, and thus two of them can do twice the job of defense as a shipyard-forgeworld combination. I highly suggest the voting on an emperor be finished before action is taken, but I also believe we must find the enemy worlds, particularly in the Cluster. And we must have Outposts! With so few ships, they are even more important! Who knows how many worlds might be taken this quarter, how many supplies lost? Reddes can supply the last shipyard, but we must have outposts to assist our paltry fleet in the coming months or they stand no chance."

"This is, quite simply, incorrect.  Do I need to remind you that at the start of this year, the Conclave was able to mount a surprise attack with nearly 30 ships and enough armies to seize 12 planets?  That implies they must be producing at least 40 supplies on planets completely hidden to us, and probably far more.  We have not made any kind of dent in these hidden planets, so the Conclave navy will be at full strength.

And again, engineers are our bottleneck.  Every outpost we make is a shipyard not made.  Outposts are inferior at defending as they cannot fight to the last man, and are also clearly inferior at counterattacking later.  Supplies are a non-issue as we have far, far more supplies available than ships, and depending on our armies for defence is worthless as the Conclave is clearly prepared to slag our key planets."

[GreatWyrmGold]

I agree with the Hyssissian representative. We need ships, we need many of them."

[monk12]

Kyros listens patiently to the outcries against diplomacy with the Conclave. "Comrades, House Toron does not believe a peace is possible. Peace talks, however, can achieve purposes beyond a negotiated truce. In the best case scenario, we will slow or delay Conclave attacks, giving us time to retool and recover from our defeat. In the worst case scenario, we will learn a little more about the nature of the Conclave. We do not know their political structure, their goals or intentions in this war, or even their predominant race. If they agree to speak with us, then we have the opportunity to learn clues to all of these questions."

Vote Aye for Conclave Diplomacy

Kyros Toron sighs. "Honorable Hyssissian, House Toron is well aware what it would mean for the Empire to retreat to the Core and the Cluster, abandoning those of us in the Rift and the Reach to possible annihilation. It is the history of my House, and perhaps our darkest hour. The things we did to survive do not bear mentioning, though if that eventuality comes to pass I will not hesitate to repeat the decisions of my forebears."

Kyros nods, becoming determined. "However, there may be another way. In my office as Darkwatcher, I now deem it necessary to reveal the Intelligence Report received prior to the disaster, despite the risk that the Conclave will learn of agent SHEILA's activities. This seems to be the fastest way to ascertain both the reason the disaster occurred, and how it can be prevented from recurring."

New information appears on each Archon's datapad, and is also displayed as a hologram floating beside Kyros.

Your intelligence operatives return with pleasing galactic map data, extracted from a captured Conclave spy.  Located within Ruben's Nebula in the Reach is a cloistered system containing a Conclave Intelligence Hub.  You were able to place an agent (codename: SHEILA) within the Ruben's Nebula Intel Hub as well, and she has drafted the following report on Conclave Intelligence Distribution.

Counterespionage: 20 Points
Fleet Recon: 4 Points

Shiela is able to get a plant in the local garrison on the world, and although unable to discover more planets the plant does produce a report on the disposition of Conclave Fleets and their current intended attack plans.

Offensive Fleets:
10 Ships to Core
4 Ships to Cluster
7 Ships to Reach
7 Ships to Rift
- Bombard Outer Imperial Shipyards
18 Armies to Core, Capture Shipyards

Defensive Fleets:
None

"At this time, I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of this report. The predicted actions of the Conclave came to pass, at the magnitude predicted. In my opinion, the Emperor did not assign enough resources to defend the Core, specifically Armies; the Armies in other Quadrants were wasted as the Conclave never intended to invade the planets there, and clearly the Armies assigned to the Core were insufficient to defeat the invaders."

Kyros frowns angrily. "Furthermore, I believe this deficiency was the result of the divided nature of the Imperial command structure. Imperial Intelligence acted with a unified vision, and accomplished their goal. Imperial Might did not optimally use the resources available, and so suffered a defeat. House Toron believes that deployment of Imperial military assets should only be carried out by the consensus of this Council, or a qualified individual; either the Emperor, or his designated lieutenant. For that reason, I propose the dissolution of the offices Admiral of the Riftwatch, as well as the various Archons Militant. However well-meaning, they are a source of division when we must have unity of purpose."

Propose Military Streamlining Act: Elimination of the offices and authority of Admiral of the Riftwatch, Archon Militant of the Cluster, Archon Militant of the Reach, and Archon Militant of the Rift.

Kyros gestures at the intel report. "It is worth noting that, while we suffer a significant ship disadvantage, we also possess a sizable Intelligence advantage. The question is what to do with that advantage. We have three priorities as I see it: The Sabotage of Conclave Shipyards to reduce their military advantage, the Reconnaissance of Conclave fleet activity to optimally assign our own defensive fleets, and the important job of Counterespionage to protect our few remaining Shipyards from Conclave sabotage."

"Fellow Archons. House Toron believes that these are the only important Intelligence activities for the Empire right now. There is a chance that the Conclave will use their Intelligence resources to sow dissent, probably in the Reach, where they have a Propaganda Hub. The chance that such dissent will result in revolution, or even defection, pales beside the possible loss of our remaining Shipyards, the probable defeat we would suffer at the hands of the Conclave fleet."

Kyros holds out his arms imploringly. "I revealed that Intelligence report to illuminate our potential salvation, despite the risk to SHEILA. As Darkwatcher, I personally ask each and every Archon to devote their full Intelligence to the Empire this quarter. If we do so, we will be able to accomplish all three tasks before the Imperial Intelligence agency. House Do'Phe. House Crow. House Dapperon. House Visarian. House DisBarr. I know you have assets remaining. Please, put them at the Empire's disposal."

[a1s]

"could we haer your vote on Shipyard and Outpost Prestige Amendment?"

[monk12]

"could we haer your vote on Shipyard and Outpost Prestige Amendment?"

Toron votes Aye on Shipyard and Outpost Prestige Amendment

((can I hear DisBarr pledge their last Intelligence? ))

[a1s]

Conclave diplomacy seemingly passes
Carrowspiel (7.5) and Dapperon(10.75) abstaining brings the total prestige available to 62 (51% of which is 31.62), while Hyssians(7), Ka'al(7), Toron(8 ) and DisBarr(10.75) voting for it makes 32.75

and similarly Shipyard and Outpost Prestige Amendment seemingly passes
Carrowspiel (7.5) and Do'Phe(6) abstaining brings the total prestige available to 66.75 (51% of which is 34.05), while Crow(5.75), Shandokar(8 ), Visarian(5.25), Toron(8 ) and DisBarr(10.75) voting for it makes 37.75

((can I hear DisBarr pledge their last Intelligence? ))

You want a bit more intelligence? Sure. House DisBarr donates 1 more intelligence for luck (bringing the total to 5)

[Rolepgeek]

"While it detracts from the current tone of discussion, the worlds captured in the Cluster must be split. Unless another house wishes to give up their worlds to take these five, I propose the following distribution; each house in the Cluster would get one, with Dapperon gaining the Forgeworld. This is simply in the Empire's interests; our proliferation of Engineers means that we can produce more Forgeworlds than other houses, especially with our current Labour supplies. As such, it is only fitting to obtain another steady source of Labourers, so that Dapperon may supply the entire Empire with supplies."

Put forward Cluster Capture Distribution Motion:
House Dapperon gains the captured Forgeworld.
House Carrowspiel gains a captured General World.
House Visarian gains a captured General World.

[monk12]

Kyros examines the proposition. "House Toron agrees that the worlds in the Cluster should be split evenly between the Houses located there. However, we believe that specialized worlds should be divided up across many Houses to maintain the balance of power within the Council, to encourage Archons to work together instead of striking out alone. Not only should the worlds be split evenly, but the Prestige as well. Thus, House Toron proposes an alternate bill:"

Propose Dividends of Cluster Conquest bill:
House Dappernon gains a captured General World
House Carrowspiel gains a captured General World
House Visarian gains a captured Fogeworld.

[Weirdsound]

"House Carrowspiel votes Nay to both House Toron and House Dapperon's proposals on dividing up the Cluster. This should not be an issue that has to go to council."

Vinci drums his fingers. "The houses of the Cluster are closely aligned, and we can work this out fairly on our own. I for one will not show favoritism for my own house or any of my neighbors in such a public forum. Our houses have a gentleman's agreement in place to grow together as equals. There is more a risk of infighting if we try to solve this in in council where we all have to appear tough in front of our peers."

Propose Conquered by the Cluster, Decided by the Cluster Bill:
The houses of the cluster are free to divide the three worlds captured in their sector as they see fit, so long as they can come to an unanimous agreement on how it should be done. Should they fail to do so by the time the Council Session is closed, the decision will fall to the Regent or Sitting Emperor.

The Oni sighs and glances at his holopad. "Also, House Carrowspiel would like to change a vote based upon further meditation. As much as it is clear that we sorely need ships and other defenses more than we need Forgeworlds in the very short term, I don't feel it is council's place to decide how prestige is doled out. If we set this precedent now, what is to stop a group of houses from obtaining a simple majority in Council and rigging the system to disenfranchise all others? We should not be using this time of crisis as an excuse to expand council's place in Imperial Government, but to elect an emperor, whether he be from my house or elsewhere, to lead us."

Change Vote from Abstain to Nay on the 4-4-2 Bill

[a1s]

"It is unclear to me why you're trying to give away 3 worlds, when the Imperial demesne is already short one. That just sounds like nonsese to me. Why don't we make the best use of the available resources?" DisBarr starts typing

Propose Capital Relocation bill:
House Carrowspiel gains a captured General World
House Visarian gains a a captured General World.
Forgeworld (Clust) ir renamed "Capitol Gains" and declared the new imperial capital

"House Dapperon, being the most powerful and prestigious house in the Cluster (almost twice as powerful as house Visarian), should magnanimously let the lesser houses take the worlds, since one of you has to"