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Author Topic: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?  (Read 6220 times)

coldmonkey

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 12:59:03 pm »

The best defense is no defense. That is, don't breach the caverns. Everything else is inferior to that.
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I found a human city named Sleevevirgins. It was easily the biggest city in the world, so clearly I wasn't the first person to come inside the city's walls.

edgefigaro

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2013, 01:04:19 pm »

Caverns really aren't that ferocious. The troublesome thing, if you have open access to the caverns, is that occasionally, things will get into your fortress unannounced/unnoticed. The only way to deal with that is having automated defenses. It can be a stationed squad at the door. It can be traps. It can be an elaborate magmagineering project. I generally favor traps myself.

Really, though, the best solution for you is in the following questions: Why are you in the caverns? Why do you want to hang out downthere? Harvest trees? Grow crops? Interact with local wildlife? Mine that rich vein of galena running through the place? Wall off cavern permitters to promote surface creatures from spawning? Often, I find it a simple perimeter wall, similar to a surface outer fort wall is very cheap, easy, and effective. Sometimes, depending on the terrain, you can claim a huge area from non flyers with a very minimal amount of stone. Also, if you are not worried about cavern 1 enemies but concerned about cavern 2/3 enemies, have you considered just building a floor over the passage between the caverns? Check your (u)nit list, and see if there is anything ferocious around.
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KingBacon

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2013, 03:19:45 pm »

My temporary defense usually involves immediate sealing. If you want to keep it open while you work. Station dwarves with crossbows near the opening. Best temporary defense if the breached area is wide. They don't need to be skilled so draft all the cheesemakers/fishdorfs, just need a crossbow on the uniform. (And bolts and quivers.)

Dig out a shooters platform above the breach and turn it into an archers nest if the terrain permits. Solves most problems with naked mole dogs and such.
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skyte100

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2013, 04:13:19 pm »

When I have multiple entrances to the caverns(IE multiple layers) I surround each entrance with a cage trap. And I put even more in the "main" entrance. I also place cage traps in various sections that the dwarves usually run through. Caught many a GCS and cave dragon by them being led into the traps by escaping dwarves that blundered there way down there.
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WanderingKid

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2013, 04:23:38 pm »

My system is a bit complex but it's relatively simple to build. I typically use a combination of surface fortress for defense with living area below so I'm not arguing with digging out defenses and living space early.

Off the fortress, I'll wall up another area, drop the wall between them, moat it, and drop a bridge.  This gives me a fortress internal area (from surface intrusions) that I can lock out if things go horribly wrong.  This area gets more advanced as time goes on (upper walls for marksmen to shoot at cavern invaders, pasture/pens with war dogs, etc) but it's my starting point.

Inside here I drill for the caverns.  I find them as needed, create wandering paths looking for them, etc.  I don't worry about this area so much.  It's an exploratory shaft that can be completely abandoned if necessary.  It won't save you from building destroyer FBs if it gets to that point, but you can adjust the moat and such and make it a full bailey if necessary or concerned.

Once I've located the cavern(s) and hatched/walled up any holes, I'll then drop down via my main shaft to where I want to really hook up to and create cavern defenses as needed, or drop my shaft through the walls of the cavern down to the magma sea for forges that are completely safe.

Boring, yes.  You can always open these items up more and more as you choose, but it's a safer way with relatively simple methods to get to, and through, the caverns.

Maul_Junior

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2013, 07:48:25 am »

The best defense is no defense. That is, don't breach the caverns. Everything else is inferior to that.

problem with that for me is that I like to have my animals inside, so I don't need to worry if they're going to get chewed on in case !!fun!! visits the surface world. seal up tight until I get my civilians sequestered and my military prepped and organized.

That indoor grass is sweet.

though it can cause issues with getting plots set up nicely. So this time I set up like 20 plots, and am leaving most of them fallow until I actually need them.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 07:51:33 am by Maul_Junior »
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BoredVirulence

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2013, 08:30:00 am »

Hatches are the best temporary solution, imho.  They can't be destroyed from below and they can be instantly locked and unlocked without the use of levers.
This, except I use doors. The trick is to have the door next to a ramp. Enemies on the lower level can't hurt the door without getting up onto the upper level, and they can't do that because there is a door in the way. Hatches are a bit easier to work with though. And there are some odd pathfinding glitches where an enemy can destroy a door if they have a path to the upper level but aren't actually on the upper level.

Although thats always just a layer of defense, usually have redundant doors for extra time and a drawbridge for emergencies.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2013, 09:01:22 am »

I favour a simple process of walling off the nearest cavern edges to my delvings and then having a large number of hunters, making sure my dwarfs don't blunder down there to grab webs. I do wall my magma smelter staircases to prevent interruptions affecting my metal industry though.

Only problem with hunters is that they don't catch every beast that comes a calling, but then that's what traps are for. Although the refuse piles do often wind up drowning in crundle scales.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

kingubu

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Re: Best temporary defense against cavern dwellers?
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2013, 11:11:31 am »

Hatches are the best temporary solution, imho.  They can't be destroyed from below and they can be instantly locked and unlocked without the use of levers.

Actually, I recently had an FB "take control" of my hatch before reaching it.  Fair warning.
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