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Author Topic: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks  (Read 13576 times)

EvilBob22

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 05:25:52 pm »

If the lever page on the wiki is correct, then gear assemblies are the only togleable, linkable items out there, so they are probably the way to go.  On the other hand, using other linked items would make the reset switch easier.

Also (according to that page) not everything has a 100 tick delay: doors, hatches, gears, and track stops (turning track stops off) are instant, and upright weapons and track stops (re-enabling them) have a 40 tick delay.
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I will run the experiment to completion anyway, however. Even if the only reason why there is a punctured equilibrium in the fortress is because I have been brutally butchering babies
EDIT: I just remembered that dwarves can't equip halberds. That might explain why the squads that use them always die.

evictedSaint

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 07:58:14 pm »

I got it working correctly. 

My design resets, and any incorrectly entered combination results in death.

I'll put the save and schematics in later tonight.

itg

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 12:40:54 am »

The concept I posted earlier worked perfectly. I constructed a proof-of-concept six lever lock, but the design can easily be extended to an arbitrary number of levers. Here's the save (Note: I'm currently working on an update addressing some minor shortcomings in this design), and here are some pictures:


evictedSaint

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 01:02:03 am »

Here is a save with my working lock.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7837
The correct combination is Blue Lever>Purple Lever>Green Lever.

You must pull all three lever for a result; incorrect sequences drown the lever-puller.

In the hallway there is a lever on the left.  This clears the waste reservoirs and the lever-room, should it be flooded. It will also shut the vault, but cannot open it.

In the hallway there is a lever on the right.  This resets the switches that control the water flow.  After hitting this lever and resetting, you will need to pull the clear, as it will flood the lever-chamber.  This is not a necessary side effect, but one of apathy and can be easily fixed.

I'm not posting pictures because it's late and I'll do it tomorrow, but this design has consumed an obscene amount of mechanisms.  It works well enough, but I'm too tired to stream line it just yet.

If you successfully enter the combination, pound the clear before hitting the reset, then hit it again.  This will shut the vault and reset.

If you unsuccessfully enter the combination, hit the reset before pounding the clear.

EDIT:  Also, the difference between ITG's and mine is that you don't know if you are successful or not until all three levers are pulled.  Also, like his, mine can be expanded to accommodate more levers.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 01:05:17 am by evictedSaint »
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 01:43:35 am »

I am imagining a system that uses the "teleporting" effect of water pressure and several door-linked levers. The water reservoir is dumped into the control tubes by an activation lever. If the correct series of doors are opened, water is allowed to reach a pressure plate that opens the vault. A reset lever drains the control tubes and refills the reservoir. If too many doors are opened, there won't be enough water to reach the pressure plate (due to the finite capacity of the reservoir). Optionally, some levers may open doors to pressure plates that activate traps.

Would the "abandon scattering" screw up a minecart shotgun trap?

Since adventurers can look at levers to count the number of mechanisms attached, dummy links should be added to some levers to mislead or equalize.

Larix

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2013, 01:53:02 am »

Simple 'resettable' revision of my design:

Two single-use pressure plates, reacting to 3-7 water, linked to both hatches, the door blocking access to the basalt lever in the northeast, and the raising bridge. Locks the vault in case of flooding and clears out the flooded corridor and opens access to the maintenance lever, so that a dwarven maintenance crew can re-set it without demolishing the entire construction. Proper resetting will require construction of a new single-use pressure plate. The bridge must be cycled once with the basalt lever. This is just the basic design, a proper one would need to make sure that what-/whoever pulled the levers in the wrong order is truly gone before permitting passage to the maintenance lever.

The design can be expanded with additional corridors for 2(number of corridors)-1 relevant levers, and would instantly signal a false combination. It requires either an aquifer or an unpractically large water reservoir for sufficient flooding/draining.
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EvilBob22

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2013, 12:27:48 pm »

itg, what tile set is that?
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I will run the experiment to completion anyway, however. Even if the only reason why there is a punctured equilibrium in the fortress is because I have been brutally butchering babies
EDIT: I just remembered that dwarves can't equip halberds. That might explain why the squads that use them always die.

Atomic Chicken

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2013, 04:32:20 am »

Small? Not a chance,
This isn't minecraft!
I was speaking relatively, but I guess "keep it simple" would have been better. You know, I think I'll edit that. Also, I have never played Minecraft. :P
So I'm still designing and I have a question: do water wheel perpetual motion generators work in adventure mode? If yes, I presume the adventurer needs to kick-start the generator?
Yes, perpetual motion generators, and just about every other fluid-based machine/logic gate works perfectly well in adventurer mode. The only difference there is to fortress mode is that fluids can't be drained off the edge of the map.
Challenge accepted.

What should I put behind the combination-locked door, comrades?
Such anticipation! :P I await your lock design.
I am imagining a system that uses the "teleporting" effect of water pressure and several door-linked levers. The water reservoir is dumped into the control tubes by an activation lever. If the correct series of doors are opened, water is allowed to reach a pressure plate that opens the vault. A reset lever drains the control tubes and refills the reservoir. If too many doors are opened, there won't be enough water to reach the pressure plate (due to the finite capacity of the reservoir). Optionally, some levers may open doors to pressure plates that activate traps.

Would the "abandon scattering" screw up a minecart shotgun trap?

Since adventurers can look at levers to count the number of mechanisms attached, dummy links should be added to some levers to mislead or equalize.
This sort of thing would never have occurred to me! I wait in anticipation for your prototype. "Abandon scattering" would indeed render a minecart shotgun trap useless, but this can be solved easily by using DFHack to make your fortress a lair, as items do not scatter in lairs. Also, good point about the number of mechanisms on levers, I think I'll add this to the OP.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quite an interesting design, too bad that it can only be reset properly in fortress mode though. Nevertheless, it meets all of the other requirements, so it deserves a place as the first submitted entry in the OP.
The concept I posted earlier worked perfectly. I constructed a proof-of-concept six lever lock, but the design can easily be extended to an arbitrary number of levers. Here's the save (Note: I'm currently working on an update addressing some minor shortcomings in this design), and here are some pictures:


Excellent and very well explained too. However it appears that the save file you posted does not contain the combination lock; rather it seems to have been saved right after embarking.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I honestly wasn't expecting entries so quickly! These all appear to be very interesting and useful designs; I shall link them in the OP shortly.
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As mentioned in the previous turn, the most exciting field of battle this year will be in the Arstotzkan capitol, with plenty of close-quarter fighting and siege warfare.  Arstotzka, accordingly, spent their design phase developing a high-altitude tactical bomber. 

Larix

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2013, 05:26:46 am »

Brainstorming about making such designs more 'adventurer-proof': an adventurer, seeing that one lever has detrimental effects, could simply flip the lever back to 'un-do' their bad decision. Ways to handle this would be:
- obligatory delay: "directly" by using floodgates instead of doors, retreating bridges instead of hatches. Those introduce a 100-step delay. I built my design with doors and hatches, because usually, i want short delays. Throwing the lever back will send a 'take back' signal instantly, but it'll take a cushy hundred steps to process.
"indirectly" by making the 'event' unobservable to the character and have the consequence of the bad decision become apparent only after a while - e.g. by dropping the liquid through a shaft, giving it an automatic delay of about 6 steps per z-level it needs to traverse.
- "no takeback" mechanisms - by linking the lock levers to other buildings which control access to the lever itself - i.e. you can stem the tide by switching the lever back off, but that'll lock you in. This is likely to make the contraption completely impossible to reset in adventurer mode. As long as there's an outside 'master control' lever, resetting in fort mode would be unproblematic, lever-operated buildings only process the latest signal received and don't care about the current _position_ of individual levers/plates linked.
- as a variant, you could make lever activations semi-permanent by e.g. opening a door together with a hatch cover right above it, upon which rest various garbage items (would still need to handle abandon scatter) - the door opens, and some stuff is dropped into the open door, blocking it so it can't be closed again before someone shifts the junk.
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Button

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2013, 02:32:43 pm »

Oh frig, mine (development stalled by work I actually get paid for) is minecart-based. I never play adventure so I was trying to make a design that wouldn't require any special geography (volcano, aquifer, river, etc). Back to the drawing board.
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Atomic Chicken

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2013, 03:29:32 pm »

Oh frig, mine (development stalled by work I actually get paid for) is minecart-based. I never play adventure so I was trying to make a design that wouldn't require any special geography (volcano, aquifer, river, etc). Back to the drawing board.
What's wrong with it being minecart-based?
(development stalled by work I actually get paid for)
:P
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As mentioned in the previous turn, the most exciting field of battle this year will be in the Arstotzkan capitol, with plenty of close-quarter fighting and siege warfare.  Arstotzka, accordingly, spent their design phase developing a high-altitude tactical bomber. 

wierd

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2013, 03:35:30 pm »

What your employer does not know, could not possibly hurt them.

Just be sure that the employer does not know, and cannot find out first. :D

(Check for employer installed spyware, and if none is found, unplug the lan cable, and then off you go. Clean up all evidence when done.)
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Larix

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2013, 04:17:13 am »

Oh frig, mine (development stalled by work I actually get paid for) is minecart-based. I never play adventure so I was trying to make a design that wouldn't require any special geography (volcano, aquifer, river, etc). Back to the drawing board.
What's wrong with it being minecart-based?

You suppose DFHacking the fort into a lair before abandoning so stuff doesn't get scattered? Does this keep minecarts in motion or do they need to be re-started (e.g. by triggering a building like a door/hatch)? Because i totally have a proof of concept sketched out, and the basic design works. For actual application, some adjustments would be in order.


and, after pulling the levers in the correct order (right to left):


Yes, even more of the obscure pathing shit i keep building.
The 'key' cart has to pass through four 'cells' in which it bounces between two double-ramps, each exit blocked by a hatch cover. When a lever is pulled, one of the hatches is opened. If correct, the 'nice' hatch opens and lets the cart proceed, if incorrect, the 'naughty' hatch opens and sends the cart off to the left, where it's ramp-bug lifted up a level, pulled across a bit to the east and then sent barrelling through the lever corridor and back into the 'lock'. If the wrong lever isn't re-set, it will keep this up indefinitely (if you really wanted to build it like this, you should probably use a metal minecart - wooden ones are light enough that colliding with a humanoid stops them). If the cart successfully passes all four cells, it circles around to the southeast and gets caught in a 'holding cell' or latch, keeping the 'target' pressure plate activated. In the example here, the plate is only linked to the orthoclase door to the south, opening it when the operator has opened the lock, allowing them back out.

Limitations: if the intended mode of operation is giving a single pull to each lever in the correct order, you can't link a lever to 'naughty' hatches occurring later in the sequence, since that would leave them open when the cart arrives, producing an automatic (false) 'naughty' result. This effectively makes the last 'false' hatch cover unnecessary, it can't be opened in a meaningful sequence, because by this time, only one lever is left to pull.
If the mode of operation was _cycling_ the levers - pulling them, waiting a bit for the cart to react to the decision, then turning the lever back off - you could employ such added connections, also allowing for double uses of the same lever and complete trap levers (say the needed sequence is 1-2-4-1, pulling lever three is always bad; lever one would be connected to the 'nice' hatches of cells one and four and to the 'naughty' hatch of cell three; it would need to be deactivated before pulling levers two and four).

There's an added 'latch' cell to the far southeast, with its own cart. The hatch to the upper right is linked to _all_ combination levers, sending the cart to the part with the pressure plate, keeping it active. The plate is linked to the grate right next to the orthoclase door; when it opens, the passage out is blocked by a pit. So once you pull a single lever of the lock combination and don't get out in ~120 steps, you'll have to properly open the lock so you can get out through the door.

The lock is re-set by returning all levers to their original position and cycling these two levers:

The orthoclase lever operates the hatch holding the key cart in the door latch circuit. Cycle it to close the door again and return the cart into the lock circuit. The other (gabbro?) lever operates the hatch cover keeping the other cart in the latch circuit holding the grate open. The key levers must all be turned off for this to be useful. The 'grate cycler' is also connected to all 'naughty' hatches, which should un-stick carts buzzing around in the middle of the sequence. For the lulz, i also connected the 'door cycler' to all 'nice' hatches, but that's totally counter-productive. Cycle the grate last, only after the orthoclase lever is safely off and after checking that the door is closed.

If intermittent minecarts to the face aren't fun enough for you, you could also send all 'failed' solution attempts into another latch circuit or over a pressure plate, activating some other machinery, like the door holding back the magma/water. A latch would prevent any attempts to correct errors. And obviously, actually linking the 'solution' plate to an actual vault door or somesuch might be a good idea, too. I just liked, for the proof-of-concept-ness, the idea of locking the operator into the lock by starting the solution attempt and only releasing them after a successful job.

Materials needed: two minecarts, a grate, a door, eleven hatch covers, 40 mechanisms. Another eight mechanisms to allow cycling out minecarts 'stuck in the lock', six more permanently installed to provide 'dummy links' - up to nine more recoverable by deconstructing linked devices when linking to gear assemblies. I might have miscounted a mechanism or two.

PS: setting it up so the carts start at rest is fairly easy and only takes another hatch cover and eight mechanisms: Station the cart for the grate latch on top of the eastern hatch cover in its circuit. When the hatch opens, it will fall in and eventually emerge on the latch side, staying there and keeping the grate open. For the key circuit, you'll need to put a hatch on top of the eastern pit of the 'naughty' ramp in the first cell, where returning carts arrive from the south. Link that hatch to all lock levers, put the cart on top. Now pulling any lever will set the lock in motion. Returning any lever to 'off' will bring 'failed' carts to a rest on top of the hatch on their next pass. The cart in the grate circuit will not stop by itself unless you also install an activatable track stop or somesuch.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 04:41:18 am by Larix »
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Crashmaster

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Re: [CHALLENGE]Dwarven Combination Locks
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2013, 01:29:44 pm »

I would suggest a lock where there is a lever array which is set to a pattern of on/off and a separate evaluation lever. The door only opens when the lever array is set to the correct pattern and the evaluation lever pulled, all other patterns should incur penalties when the evaluation lever is used.

I think this type would be more fun to solve then the serial-sequence lever codes. It would deal with the need to re-set the levers after an attempt or pull each lever twice while entering the sequence. Your last guess would still be displayed on the lever array as well. It would also present a lot of opportunities for communicating hints to the adventurer as a pattern.
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