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Author Topic: cannot butcher sentient beings  (Read 2051 times)

kreepergrimms

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cannot butcher sentient beings
« on: July 16, 2013, 03:49:32 am »

i know that the default eat sapients was disabled in the newest update, i also know where in the raws to turn it back on, i have turned both eat and trophy sapients back on, but my dwarves will no longer butcher ogres, elves, or any other types of sentient beings, are there any other places in the raws that i need to change?
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Z1000000m

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 11:41:06 am »

Now this, funny enough, will be slighty off-topic, but I'm afraid that Meph is going to have to put a large, bold statement for people to actually check if this is the correct place for asking such questions.

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kreepergrimms

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 10:04:33 pm »

i have already seen the other topics in mephs bug thread about him removing the default butchering of sentients, which is why i asked in the general discussion due to not everyone reading the bug reports
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 07:27:11 am »

I don't think this is deserving of a seperate thread, also you aren't able to butchering sapients doesn't quite work as intended. You never get meat or leather off of sapients, as dwarves only ever butcher their skeletons. At least this is what its been in my experience. They let the body rot, then butcher the skeleton for bones and a skull.
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SabbyKat

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2013, 01:52:31 pm »

I think it does deserve a thread, as it's a specific change that wasn't really well explained, nor made 'optional' like most are. I fail to see the reasoning for this removal, personally. As indeed, they only butcher skeletons which gives bones and takes what? a game year or two to decompose? You can argue due to the sheer volume of bodies from sieges that its unbalanced - but have you tried breeding 20 animals? You'll get 200+ before a single sentient skeleton would be viable, and those animals give meat, fat, and other valuable materials on top of bones.

Further, the main concern I've encountered with this change is the bloody clutter! My entire stockpile is full of sentient corpses that I can do nothing with except wait for them to entirely rot. Leaving them outside is fine, but quite ugly - especially as I have something silly like 300+ corpses outside my entrance now, and this is only after a two year period of fighting...

An alternative to it, I would argue, is if possible, flag sentient 'skeletons' (or corpses) as vermin remains so it can be used in the 'create flux from vermin remains' in slaughterhouses. 1 flux per corpse is nothing, and will give a way to remove these bodies without making massive stockpiles or leaving corpses everywhere, and won't really need anything changed in game bar a single flag (if it's possible of course).

A second idea, would be simply to speed up the degrading rate of sentient races and their corpses (if this is viable). It would be similar to now, but remove the issue of corpses everywhere for 1-6 game years before they vanish.

I feel this is a valid point of discussion for its own thread as this change indeed does cause a good few problems that need (in my opinion) to be resolved in some manner.
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2013, 03:43:48 pm »

....Or you could dump them....
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SabbyKat

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 03:53:22 pm »

dump stacking last I recall, is considered a bug. (quantum dumping or whatever the term is). Why would you use a bug, to fix something that isn't a bug?

More so, again to the point. Why was this change made? I can produce damn near 100+ puppies or similar from my mastiffs I use for guard duty on embark, which give FAR more bones then sentient skeletons every did, as well as meat, leather, fat, etc etc, on top of bones.

There's always alternatives to something, but taking away options without a good reason makes no sense.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 04:08:02 pm by SabbyKat »
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2013, 04:20:42 pm »

Quantum dumping isn't a bug? ??? It's just bad game design that will be replaced with a better system later.
Also it was removed due to the large quantity of bone bolts you could get from a single invasion - it was literally ridiculous.
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Billy Jack

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2013, 06:20:39 pm »

I thought you could burn the body parts in the crematorium.  Not sure.
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Give a dwarf a fish, you feed him for a season.
Give a dwarf a Fishpond, couple of buckets, build a Fishery, and enable Fishfarming labor; you feed him for a lifetime. (And get someone to clean and prep the fish)

kreepergrimms

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2013, 10:28:34 pm »

in the raws there is an option to butcher sapients and also to eat sapients, in the version 34.11 i believe of normal df if both were turned on you could indeed get meat fat and other materials from sieges, also the food produced from said sieges had a higher value than regular foods, but yes the refuse stockpiles filling up is another reason why i would prefer it to be turned on, but as of now in the raws i have both eat and butcher sapients turned on, but my dwarves still do not butcher them so i am wondering if there was a change somewhere else in the raws or in the code itself that disabled the butchering of sentients
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: cannot butcher sentient beings
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2013, 04:57:19 am »

I reiterate; No meat, No leather. No, the only thing effecting this behaviour are the ehtics in the entity file and whether the creature in question is even capable of being butchered. It could also be that bug where anything not slaughtered or killed by a hunter sits there to rot without being butchered.
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