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[adwarf]

There are guardsmen regiments who are good in melee, but no matter how good a guardsmen becomes he will not be the equal of something like a World Eater, Genestealer, or any other alien because they're just human.

To be fair, they can probably take Tau. Most Tau, anyway. Or Grots.

Ehh, true enough.

[Patrick Hunt]

I guess, but that still leaves a lot of our men with horrible melee skill, we could at least focus on getting them trained up better.

[Parsely]

Because trying to play a suggestion game with people who've already decided what they want to do is just depressing.
Our units are going to get slaughtered in melee because they haven't had the training to stand any chance and  I seem to be the only one who actually sees it because everybody else is fixated on preconceptions of what a guardsmen should be and won't consider any other options to improve on it.

But 1 thing, while I've been reading through information on guardsmen I've found quite a few regiments that had high melee skill and put it to great use, so guardsmen do use melee you just have to use it properly to make it effective.


Don't we already have 1?

There's nothing wrong with being outvoted, it happens to everyone. No need to get hurt.

Those preconceptions are facts. Humans simply can't handle themselves in hand-to-hand combat like the other races can. They're weak. They're better off using guns. Astartes can ram a chainsword through an ork's neck and it won't die, so it stands to reason that a puny Imp Guard wouldn't be able to do much more, if even as much damage as they could. Our efforts are much better used improving their ranged effectiveness rather than trying to get their swordplay on par with Astartes.

Just because the enemy closes, it doesn't mean that guns are instantly rendered useless either. Lasguns are compact, like adwarf informed me. They're still useful in close-quarters combat.

We're not saying sword training is a bad idea, or wouldn't be useful, but ranged training is much more valuable for Imperial Guardsmen. There's a difference between having fixed preconceptions and recognising the strengths and weaknesses of the forces you're given.

EDIT: Holy caps b_knight. D:

[Patrick Hunt]

But weaknesses can be improved on and if you hit an enemy with a sword in the right place he'll still go down, but nvm I'll drop the whole idea.

[Harbingerjm]

But weaknesses can be improved on and if you hit an enemy with a sword in the right place he'll still go down, but nvm I'll drop the whole idea.

See, your problem here is that you don't know much about 40K and are making assumptions that just aren't true.

[Patrick Hunt]

Not really, I'm making assumptions based on what I've been reading about guard regiments that used melee a lot and with great effect.

But they tended to be from planets where they have above average strength so I guess our kind might not be capable of it as effectively as they are.

[b_knight286]

EDIT: Holy caps b_knight. D:

Heh, I use caps because italics and bolding for emphasis takes more effort.  Anyways, Patrick, from what little I know of Warhammer, other races either have a speed advantage in melee, an armor advantage over our non-sciency swords, or they can cut a man in half with a giant axe, meaning they'll just KILL more than we can in melee.  We have no dedicated melee troops, training in melee only serves to get us crushed slightly less in melee against these other races.  Remember that World Eater we had to kill via tiny eye openings on his helmet?  That.  Shooting is MUCH safer.  Still like to keep up tradition since we suck to bad as of yet to keep ALL enemies out of melee, though.  Train the newguys in melee but otherwise focus on shooting and entrenchment.  Unless they keep sending us on easy missions, which they won't because we're playing an Imperial Guard game on the DF forums, we need to lean towards shooting them away from our defensive lines.

[Cheesecake]

In WH40K, the IG are meant to be expendable; trillions of them are conscripted from the galaxy. Their strength is in numbers and a fervent fanatic loyalty to Humanity and the Emperor.

I suggest hypodoctrination and training clerics or chaplains to boost morale and loyalty.

[Harbingerjm]

Oh yes, we definitely need priests. Lots of them.

Also, we should check that those scavanged power packs from before are properly disposed of.

[10ebbor10]

Well, since we're an artillery battalion, bet improve our ability to grab a spot and stay there.

 Massed artillery firing drills: We want to be able to not only pick of certain spots, but also to completely deny acces to certain areas.

New units and equipment:
        -Flamethrowers should allow us to keep our trenches clear. Should help too, if we really feel the need to press a counter offensive
        -Small infantery sized mortars gives units something to do when the enemy isn't yet in range
        -Some kind of ablative armor for trenches, don't want them blown up that fast
        -Rocket artillery: Longer ranged than a mortar, and capable of wiping stuff of the map fast. Takes out an incoming wave, or knocks out a bases defenses

There are guardsmen regiments who are good in melee, but no matter how good a guardsmen becomes he will not be the equal of something like a World Eater, Genestealer, or any other alien because they're just human. A siege regiment when it goes on the offensive does (as Harbinger pointed out) will fight in a WWI fashion, they'll have month long assaults fighting and sacrificing mean to gain every inch of trench and every foot of ground they can buy.

Fixed

[3_14159]

Concerning the melee training point, I stand by my position: It's nice to have, but there are other, higher priorities first.

For example, consider the last battle we were in. With the addition of Born Commander, we would've been able to extend our fortifications extensively; both our engineers and normal troops would've been able to build double the amount of trenches and of a better quality, too. This would, quite possibly, have resulted in no enemies closing to melee.

Basically, what I'm saying is that, while melee ability is good if it comes to the worst, other abilities prevent the worst.


As for standard, name and motto: How about the Volgar Scorpions, with the motto being Caedimus Procul and our standard being a scorpion rising from the ground, sting outstretched? (I cannot draw that, but alternatively something like that?

[adwarf]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Move 3 leather armored guardsmen squads from 1st to 2nd battalion, move 1 anti tank team and 1 heavy weapon team.
Move 4 squads of guardsmen from 2nd to 1st battalion.

Have every man in every regiment trained in massed fire drills, including the engineers. Have those who already have the training assist those who don't. Promote the 2 infantry units in the command battalion into veteran squads.

Send a request to have additional flak armor and hotshot rifles send to us before we arrive at our destination. Also request additional forces, especially veterans, ogryn and tanks been assigned to us if possible and more scouts.

Continue meeting all our men and encouraging them so they get to know us, continue working on our technical ability with the help of somebody more experienced.

Also, make the request for scouts our main priority. We need information badly, at all times.

I agree on sending the men to the firing range.
As for ourself, we should keep up the "commander of his soldiers" act. So participate in their training and try not to emberass ourself while we do so.
Do make sure the Salix men and our Volgar brethren get along. Make a small effort towards getting the Salix guys onto "your" side.
Making them learn from each other - Volgar some Tech and Salix some Swordplay - might be worth an Idea.

Well, since we're an artillery battalion, bet improve our ability to grab a spot and stay there.

Massed artillery firing drills: We want to be able to not only pick of certain spots, but also to completely deny acces to certain areas.

New units and equipment:
        -Flamethrowers should allow us to keep our trenches clear. Should help too, if we really feel the need to press a counter offensive
        -Small infantery sized mortars gives units something to do when the enemy isn't yet in range
        -Some kind of ablative armor for trenches, don't want them blown up that fast
        -Rocket artillery: Longer ranged than a mortar, and capable of wiping stuff of the map fast. Takes out an incoming wave, or knocks out a bases defenses

Commision a Regimental Standard

You set the men to work immediately hoping to occupy their minds and keep them from thinking about the losses on Salix, and to maybe prevent any conflict between the Volgar and Salix troopers. The training itself is a huge success, and the Salix and Volgar troopers take to their new combined regiment status quickly and soon you have all but the heavy weapon and artillery battalions trained in massed fire though the heavy weapons might not need the training considering the firepower they have. You personally take part in the massed fire drills and quickly find you've a slight knack for the use of a lasgun as you consistently hit the targets down range quite easily. Aside from that the cross training between Salix and Volgar men goes excellently and both sides manage to learn much from each others lessons.

As you observe the men, and make your rounds you find the Volgar 3rd seems to be in a fairly good condition, no in-fighting occurs other then the usual drunken fight or two which is quickly handled. From the looks of things you believe there is going to be no problems between the men from different planets, perhaps the action the Salix and Volgar took place in together brought them close together or perhaps both sides are just genuinely open to outsiders. However it happened you're just glad nothing bad came of the regiments merging.

---

Late in the first month of transport when the fleet drops out of warp to collect supplies and new arrivals from a way station over the planet Nal IV you receive an answer to the list of requisition you'd sent to the higher ups in the form of the arrival of what supplies and forces you'd been granted.

Troops wise you find four Ministorum Priests escorted by two squads of veteran soldiers from who knows where and five units of scouts from some Salix regiment that was lost in the early stages of the war in that system. With them comes numerous crates filled with munition supplies, ten infantry based mortars, five flamers, and numerous sets of flak armor to replace the outdated leather armor your men have. Altogether its a decent haul considering your situation, and the priests will certainly prove helpful in keeping the men firm in the face of any opposition you may face.

However most importantly you finally receive your regimental standard which takes the form of ...

Spoiler: Colonel Mordecai Castronova (click to show/hide)

Condition: Excellent Health
Age: 31 years and 5 months old

Possessions:
M35 M-Galaxy Short pattern Lasgun
Standard Issue Bayonet
Superb Longsword
Flak Armor
Standard Trooper Combat Webbing [Three Frag Grenades, Krak Grenade]

Traits:
Born Commander

Bionics and Implants:
Bionic Left Arm

Regiment Relationship: Somewhat Liked.

Skills:
Competent Leadership
Competent Swordsmanship
Average Thrower
Competent Marksmanship
Novice Technical Aptitude

Spoiler: Volgar 3rd Siege Regiment (click to show/hide)

Note: All squads with Origin: Volgar have Excellent Melee Weapons. The 1st & 2nd Infantry Battalion, Command Battalion, and Engineer Battalion are trained for effective massed fire.
Command Battalion
Morale: Excellent
Skill: Veteran
Origin: Majority Volgar
Commissar-General Kalman [Garm Pattern Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
Cadet Commissar Malkom [M35 M-Galaxy Short pattern Lasgun, Bayonet, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
Command Chimera [Heavy Bolter, Medium Armor, Field HQ, Capacity: 0/2]
Personal Guard [Hotshot Lasguns, Carapace Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1), Krak Grenades (1/1)]
Veteran Infantry Squads [Hotshot Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1), Krak Grenades (1/1)]
2 Infantry Squads [Hotshot Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1), Bloodied]

Scout Battalion
Morale: Excellent
Skill: Bloodied
Origin: Volgar
Captain Ralph 'Old Ironside' [Long-las, Flak Armor, Camo-Cloak]
2 Scout Units [Long-Las, Leather Armor, Camo-Cloaks, Motorized (Bikes), Frag Grenades (1/1)]

Origin: Salix
5 Scout Units [Long-Las, Leather Armor, Camo-Cloaks, Motorized (Bikes), Frag Grenades (1/1)]

1st Infantry Battalion
Morale: Excellent
Skill: Bloodied
Origin: Volgar
15 Infantry Squad [Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
5 Infantry Squads [Lasguns, Mortars, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
Anti-Tank Squad [Missile Launcher, Flak Armor, Krak Grenades (1/1)]
Heavy Weapons Squad [Autocannons, Leather Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]

2nd Infantry Battalion
Morale: Excellent
Skill: Bloodied
Origin: Salix
19 Infantry Squads [Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
5 Infantry Squads [Lasguns, Mortars, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]


Origin: Volgar
3 Infantry Squads [Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
Anti-Tank Squad [Missile Launcher, Flak Armor, Krak Grenades (1/1)]
Heavy Weapons Squad [Autocannons, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]

Heavy Weapons Battalion
Morale: Excellent
Skill: Bloodied
Origin: Volgar
4 Infantry Squads [Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
5 Flamer Squads [Flamer, Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
11 Heavy Weapons Squads [Autocannons, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1)]
7 Anti-Tank Squads [Missile Launcher, Flak Armor, Krak Grenades (1/1)]

Engineer Battalion
Morale: Excellent
Skill: Green
Origin: Volgar
18 Engineer Squads [Entrenching Tools, Construction Units, Lasguns, Leather Armor]
4 Trojan Support Vehicles [Supply Vehicle, Towing Vehicle, Very Light Armor]

Artillery Battalion
Morale: Excellent
Origin: Volgar

Skill: Green
8 Basilisks [Earthshaker Cannon, Medium Armor, Slow]
9 Centaurs [Heavy Stubber, Light Armor, Artillery Tow, Capacity: 0/1]
9 Heavy Mortars [Immobile, Artillery, Emplacements]
2 Hydra Flak Tanks [Twin-linked Autocannons, Medium Armor, Anti-Air]

Ministorum Detachment
4 Ministorum Priests [Eviscerators, Laspistols, Flak Armor, Aura of Authority]
2 Veteran Infantry Squads [Hotshot Lasguns, Flak Armor, Frag Grenades (1/1), Krak Grenades (1/1)]

Medical Staff
Chief Medic Halmin [Laspistol, Experienced]
11 Field Medics [Lasguns, Green]
25 Orderlies [Laspistols, Green]

Spoiler: GM Note (click to show/hide)

If anyone would like to draw the regimental standard once its been made please do so otherwise it'll end up just as a description of some sort since my artistic skills are kinda poor in all senses. Also after you decide on what the standard looks like we'll move on to your next deployment area and your next warzone, from there we will see if the Volgar 3rd's tale continues or if they pay the ultimate price in the name of the God Emperor

[Parsely]

… a broken lance and an intact arrow crossed, both orange, on a field of white, with a black border. Superimposed atop the shattered lance and arrow is the regimental number, and group commendations would be arranged on the right, and the sign of the Aquila would be placed in the bottom left corner.

[Cheesecake]

Let's just go simple: the Aquila, with a skull instead of the eagle, in white against a black background.

Also: Ask the Ecclessiarchy for more priests and the ability to sanction our own priests. Indoctrinate daily prayer to all men's schedule that does not interfere with training. Grant them 6 hours of sleep, 4 hours of prayer, seperated, 4 hours of free time, 6 hours training, and four hours for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

What Ordo's is Kalman in? Because if he's in Ordo Hereticus he could help us find psykers among our men.

Order the priests to scan all the men monthly for signs of treason, doubt, or psyker prowess.If we find one, subject him to Kalman, the Black Ships, and hopefully he will be strong enough to become Sanctioned.

[Harbingerjm]

What Ordo's is Kalman in? Because if he's in Ordo Hereticus he could help us find psykers among our men.

... The rest of your post aside, Kalman is a Commissar.