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[Cheesecake]

+1 to Lurker's suggestions.

[Harbingerjm]

No enemy is going to sit under your fire and no fortification is going to stop them from closing in, they have no choice because attacking is the best way to counter our artillery.

So that means you should just give up on improving your fortifications altogether? Why are we even a siege regiment in that case?

Whatever way you look at it melee fighting is going to come into it and our men need the training,

If melee fighting comes into it versus Orks, Chaos, Nids or whatever, melee training is going to be a lot less useful than improved fortifications and shooting training (meaning there will be less of them reaching us in the first place), improved ability to make and use cover (meaning there will be a lot more of us left standing to fight them), and of course improved defences designed to allow them to murder things better (self-evident).

you can't train entrenching on a damned space ship. How are they going to dig trenches or construct fortifications?

Again, Imperial Naval troop transport. They have huge fucking rooms given over to training in various terrain types, one full of dirt shouldn't be too hard to get. And things like training in deploying concertina wire more quickly and efficiently should be even easier to organise.

[Patrick Hunt]

I don't know but I think sword training is more useful, your basing this on the thought that your going to spend every single battle sitting in fortifications defending.
A siege regiment is going to have to attack sometimes as well and being able to build a damned good trench is going to make exactly 0 difference when your trying to over run an enemy position.

Sword training will help in both offense and defense, entrenchment will only help in defense. To attack you can't just sit and shoot you have to get in close and cut them down if they don't fall back. I'd think our forces having the best possible training with those swords would come in very useful in limiting how many men we lose in attacks.

A lot more useful then having the satisfaction of knowing the trench 500 meters behind them is going to be very useful to the guy who has to defend it because the attack failed because they weren't trained properly for it.

[Parsely]

Put simply, sword training is useful, but ranged and fortification training is more useful. There's no two ways about it. There will be some situations in which we'll need swords, but there will be more situations in which we're using our rifles and relying on our defences.

[Patrick Hunt]

Ranged training is going on already though and fortifications have a limited scope for use. Like I said earlier, a good trench is not going to do us any good when we're attacking the enemy, our soldiers need the training to fight offensively as well and that will require getting up close with the enemy.

Our defenses are only useful for a defensive mission and half our missions will be offensive, if we don't train the soldiers in the skill they need for offense then we'll lose far more men then we can afford, like in that last mission. We had good fortifications but the moment the enemy closed in we lost our advantage because they are not trained for close range and it was largely the fact that we had melee skill that enabled us to survive against world eaters.

If we face a melee species again and they have more soldiers and less cultists then we'll lose a lot of men because half our soldiers don't have a clue how to fight up close, besides with the new commander skill don't we have a massive edge in fortifications already anyway? Shouldn't we cover our weak points before we improve something thats already strong?

[Parsely]

Ranged training is going on already though and fortifications have a limited scope for use. Like I said earlier, a good trench is not going to do us any good when we're attacking the enemy, our soldiers need the training to fight offensively as well and that will require getting up close with the enemy.

Our defenses are only useful for a defensive mission and half our missions will be offensive, if we don't train the soldiers in the skill they need for offense then we'll lose far more men then we can afford, like in that last mission. We had good fortifications but the moment the enemy closed in we lost our advantage because they are not trained for close range and it was largely the fact that we had melee skill that enabled us to survive against world eaters.

If we face a melee species again and they have more soldiers and less cultists then we'll lose a lot of men because half our soldiers don't have a clue how to fight up close, besides with the new commander skill don't we have a massive edge in fortifications already anyway? Shouldn't we cover our weak points before we improve something thats already strong?

If Imperial Guardsmen get into a melee with Orks, they're already dead. If they get into it with Chaos cultists, they can hold their own. If they get into melee with Tyranids, well.. :L

Imp Guards don't do melee. They just don't.

[Harbingerjm]

Ranged training is going on already though and fortifications have a limited scope for use. Like I said earlier, a good trench is not going to do us any good when we're attacking the enemy, our soldiers need the training to fight offensively as well and that will require getting up close with the enemy.

Our defenses are only useful for a defensive mission and half our missions will be offensive,

Where are you getting this information? We are a siege regiment, if we are sent on an offensive mission it will likely be a WWII style grind match, trench-to-trench warfare.

if we don't train the soldiers in the skill they need for offense then we'll lose far more men then we can afford, like in that last mission.

Um, yes, and that skill is shooting things. We are Imperial Guard, not Tyranids.

We had good fortifications but the moment the enemy closed in we lost our advantage because they are not trained for close range and it was largely the fact that we had melee skill that enabled us to survive against world eaters.

...Noooo, we had fairly poor defenses hastily thrown together in two days. The reason we survived against them close up is because we killed enough of them on the way in that we had a significant enough numerical advantage. A little extra training with a sword is not sufficient to make any real difference against bloody World Eaters.

If we face a melee species again and they have more soldiers and less cultists then we'll lose a lot of men because half our soldiers don't have a clue how to fight up close,

See, this is one of those situations where knowing more about 40K would help you make much better decisions.

besides with the new commander skill don't we have a massive edge in fortifications already anyway? Shouldn't we cover our weak points before we improve something thats already strong?

Ahahahaha.

[Patrick Hunt]

It's on the Lexicanum sight, siege regiments are often used in offensive action to make breaches with infantry attacks before other regiments are moved in to support them.

But nvm I give up on this game.

[Parsely]

But nvm I give up on this game.

Why?

[TopHat]

I'd just like to re-iterate a suggestion of mine a while ago:
Commision a Regimental Standard
They aren't exactly expensive to make, and one could be massively useful.

[Parsely]

I'd just like to re-iterate a suggestion of mine a while ago:
Commision a Regimental Standard
They aren't exactly expensive to make, and one could be massively useful.

+1 Maybe someone should draw one?!

[Patrick Hunt]

Because trying to play a suggestion game with people who've already decided what they want to do is just depressing.
Our units are going to get slaughtered in melee because they haven't had the training to stand any chance and  I seem to be the only one who actually sees it because everybody else is fixated on preconceptions of what a guardsmen should be and won't consider any other options to improve on it.

But 1 thing, while I've been reading through information on guardsmen I've found quite a few regiments that had high melee skill and put it to great use, so guardsmen do use melee you just have to use it properly to make it effective.


Don't we already have 1?

[adwarf]

Because trying to play a suggestion game with people who've already decided what they want to do is just depressing.
Our units are going to get slaughtered in melee because they haven't had the training to stand any chance and  I seem to be the only one who actually sees it because everybody else is fixated on preconceptions of what a guardsmen should be and won't consider any other options to improve on it.

But 1 thing, while I've been reading through information on guardsmen I've found quite a few regiments that had high melee skill and put it to great use, so guardsmen do use melee you just have to use it properly to make it effective.

There are guardsmen regiments who are good in melee, but no matter how good a guardsmen becomes he will not be the equal of something like a World Eater, Genestealer, or any other alien because they're just human. A siege regiment when it goes on the offensive does (as Harbinger pointed out) will fight in a WWII fashion, they'll have month long assaults fighting and sacrificing mean to gain every inch of trench and every foot of ground they can buy.

Them choosing to go with the ranged, and fortification focus is kinda a good idea because its what will give them the most advantage considering the fact that all of the troops excluding those from Salix are about as good as they're gonna get in melee. They aren't fixated on preconceptions but fact, if guardsmen go up against Orks, Chaos, Nids, etc. in melee when they don't have a large numerical advantage they will die, in droves.

EDIT: Also if anyone wants to make a Regimental Standard that would be awesome

[Harbingerjm]

There are guardsmen regiments who are good in melee, but no matter how good a guardsmen becomes he will not be the equal of something like a World Eater, Genestealer, or any other alien because they're just human.

To be fair, they can probably take Tau. Most Tau, anyway. Or Grots.

[b_knight286]

Patrick, you forget we are from a MEDIEVAL planet.  We have the BEST melee weapons they're going to give us for a few turns and our native troops have been training to USE those weapons their ENTIRE LIVES.  That's how medieval society WORKS.  Also they (likely) won't send an untested siege regiment to ATTACK people quite just yet, that's what the OTHER regiments are for.  Those guys will take care of the attacking, WE will attack if THEY fail.  At which point the game is likely over due to overwhelming odds caused by poor allied dice rolls behind the scenes, but yeah we're not outfitted for attack and command aren't stupid enough to send us to attack unless there's really no other choice.  Entrenching a field base or city, however, we CAN do, and in the case of a city that will grant a safe haven to other regiments.  Train the new guys a bit in melee weapons but train the NATIVE troops in helping engineers, marksman training, and shooting tactics designed to keep the enemy advance as slow as possible.