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[Warmist]

Yeah nobody loves advmode ;< (except rumrusher)

[Meph]

Toady does... most of what he has done these last 2 years is for AdvMode.

[Bloax]

It's hard to love something that's nothing but an empty, unfinished shell that's completely static and without any signs of life at this point.

You know, what with the missing goblin, elf and dwarf sites, nothing going on - shops being completely useless, the same old quest structure of bandits->more bandits->something/bandits->blabla
Oh, and the cavern populations getting completely wiped out apparently due to a bug. Which means there's only the overworld to explore, unless you like pointlessly wandering for hours on end while utterly lost.

and what with the next version of DF sitting there and making playing that seem utterly pointless (not to mention all the other games available out there seem more attractive currently)

Don't get me wrong on that I don't like it at all (I do like the premise), it's just that it's so lackluster and dead at the moment that it's not really worth being a general timesink.

[PeridexisErrant]

Is this potentially able to implement full graphics support, #4 eternal suggestion?  As I understand it, Toady is unlikely to ever implement that due to issues with the SDL code, so it's a prime candidate for some kind of hacky workaround.  I'd imagine that this is on the more difficult end for implementation, so literally just asking if it's possible. 

The other potentially interesting graphics hack - which would be a lot easier (I think) - is to give a better view of lower z-levels.  This is mostly laid out in suggestion #35, to display the layers below open space with some sort of fog or darkening effect to distinguish depth (I'd imagine fog is more compatible with lighting, if people want both at once).  There are plenty of mockups of this and similar ideas, so:

Spoiler: multi-level view mockups (click to show/hide)

A video mockup of the darken-effect; also has transition animation and smoother scrolling which are separate projects.  Best mockup for lower=darker. 

My personal favorite, with a nice fog effect; the dark border at the bottom of ramps makes it easy to see which thing is on what level.  Fog effect is more compatible with lighting. 


Reduce lightness 10% for each of nine levels; didn't work so well. 

Thoughts?

[Meph]

I dont think so... even if you manage to read out whats on the lower levels and overlay it graphically to show something akin to the screenshot you posted, even then the DF interface wouldnt recognize it. So you can see the trees on Z3 while on Z5, but you cant designate them for cutting... it would be purely graphical, like Stonesense. At least thats my understanding of it.

[PeridexisErrant]

If you manage to read out what's on the lower levels and overlay it graphically to show something akin to the screenshot you posted, the DF interface wouldn't recognize it. So you can see the trees on Z3 while on Z5, but you cant designate them for cutting... it would be purely graphical, like Stonesense.

Yes, this is intended to make DF pretty and nothing else. 

I would expect it to act as a replacement for the usual dots on z-1 and blank below that- interaction editing is pretty clearly beyond scope and introduces a whole consistency problem with controls to the point I'd want to disable it.  Maybe have a thick fog layer over the first layer down, and thinner subsequently to make the distinction between the 'active' level and 'visible' levels? 

[Meph]

I'd say lets wait for warmist to finish rendermax and the lighting first.

[Warmist]

I'd say lets wait for warmist to finish rendermax and the lighting first.

Actually I am already working on that. I needed an offscreen renderer (i.e. a renderer that allows to draw anything from anyplace in a map) for mutiplayer. But that combined with rendermax can work to make a multilevel view.
Of course as everything done by me it's not finished and i'm going for a vacation

[PeridexisErrant]

So... The multilevel view is possible and might even happen (!!!), and no news yet on full graphics?  Sounds pretty good to me. 

[Putnam]

offscreen renderer (i.e. a renderer that allows to draw anything from anyplace in a map) for mutiplayer.

what

[Warmist]

So... The multilevel view is possible and might even happen (!!!), and no news yet on full graphics?  Sounds pretty good to me.

Same thing can also be used for full graphics support (when you are drawing everything yourself you can draw it anyway you wish). Though currently it does not do a lot of stuff: no blinking stuff, incorrect lower level drawing, grasses might be incorrect, no item drawing. Basically this:
album here
As you can see the view in some places is better in others it's worse. The draw order might be broken too... So the idea is it needs a tons of work until it's nice and ready for usage.
As for multiplayer itself- currently it only tracks individual units from your fort. I'm thinking of allowing players to control them in some way. Other mode would be to control fort by multiple players, but that would need me to implement more drawing stuff and each and every workshop menu etc... Not sure how hard that would be.

[Greendogo]

Spoiler: multi-level view mockups (click to show/hide)

A video mockup of the darken-effect; also has transition animation and smoother scrolling which are separate projects.  Best mockup for lower=darker. 

My personal favorite, with a nice fog effect; the dark border at the bottom of ramps makes it easy to see which thing is on what level.  Fog effect is more compatible with lighting. 

I really like this idea.  It's way better than the void of nothingness that we get with Vanilla Dwarf Fortress.

[Mayama]

Spoiler: multi-level view mockups (click to show/hide)

A video mockup of the darken-effect; also has transition animation and smoother scrolling which are separate projects.  Best mockup for lower=darker. 

My personal favorite, with a nice fog effect; the dark border at the bottom of ramps makes it easy to see which thing is on what level.  Fog effect is more compatible with lighting. 

I really like this idea.  It's way better than the void of nothingness that we get with Vanilla Dwarf Fortress.

yeah thats really the best mockup

[Isher]

If the layers are few and very transparent, then you get to the point that you can make each square incrementally larger and stack them for a sortof pseudo-3d, or 2.5d if you will. This would come with its own drawbacks of course, but it would mean you could see a multi-level tree or staircase, though it would be shown in sections and would not appear to have sides when seen from 5 squares or more away. I've been musing to myself about this for a while.

[PeridexisErrant]

This was also proposed in the depth by darkening/fog thread, which I should have linked to before.  See also the thread for full graphics support.  There was even a FotF where Toady discussed depth-viewing issues... in 2007.

Spoiler: mockup of this '2.5d' via scaling (click to show/hide)

Taken from the depth by darkening thread, mockup also notes that displaying walls nicely like this is tricky. 

While I think it's a neat idea, I'd guess that it would be enough work to eg get the offsets and scaling right that we'd be better off putting the same work into a simpler fog effect and then later on full graphics.