Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheDarkStar]

There is still a limit on how fast you can swing your arm, no matter how strong you are.

[Porpoisepower]

That's true... but it's hella easier with candy, and then the question is the max speed with a steel mace inherently slower than a candy mace.

Which could be interesting because that would imply recruits armed with candy would be able to hit harder than if they were armed with steel, while a veteran who could swing both candy and steel at similar speeds, would be able to take advantage of the added mass of steel. Or if once you reach the max velocity of arm speed is the difference in force significant?

[Dorsidwarf]

25 and 50 is a bit simplified - try a 2 oz jawbreaker vs a 50 lb warhammer. Candy weighs o little, it's like Styrofoam.

You just cannot physically get your body to swing the Nerd Bat fast enough that it's a better weapon than a war-hammer.

[Porpoisepower]

Right so the question is how fast can you swing the 2oz candy hammer vs a 50lb war hammer, because there will be a difference.

The weight ratio is only 1:400 but to make up for the lack of mass, the candy hammer only needs to go 20 times as fast.

And I think I could swing a 2oz hammer 20 times faster than I could a 50lb hammer.

Sorry about derailing this thread

[KingBacon]

Query: How is weapon speed/swing speed determined in the game? Can it be modded in the RAWS?

[Larix]

Adamantine is quite a bit denser than styrofoam, it's more comparable to balsa wood. By the raws, adamantine has a solid density of 0,2 - compared to silver's 10,5, that's a factor of 52, not 400.

I doubt that you could truly swing a lighter weapon at a sufficient speed to compensate for the lower mass (remember we're not comparing a 50lb fantasy 'warhammer' with a 60g bit of candy, but a silver (4kg) or steel (~3kg) actual warhammer with one of adamantine, which weighs 80g ). You'll run into the limit of how fast muscles can actually move, and a swung weapon receives most of its impact force from the muscles of whoever is swinging it - i.e. you can't get extra force by making a weapon lighter so that it swings faster, if you actually just use the same amount of force to swing it in the end. In fact, since you're not just swinging the weapon but also your entire arm, a heavier weapon promises a better "business weight to ballast weight" ratio than a lighter one, so could be expected to perform better when the basic use and material parameters are equal.

[Porpoisepower]

I think people are assuming that I'm thinking I can swing candy super fast because it's light... I'm actually saying that swinging something heavy is just that much slower... until your uber strong. 

I also said that uber string fighters who could swing ultra heavy hammers with ease would not be handicapped, but novice fighters who would be handicapped by the weight of a super heavy mace, would be more effective with candy. 

That's all I'm saying I'll stop flaming now.

[Mr S]

OK, let's take a step back for a second.  Walk away from your desk/table/couch.  Go to the hardware store.  Buy a regular, steel head, hickory handle framing hammer.  Then, shuffle down a few feet, and buy that fancy all titanium model that's roughly the same SIZE.  It won't weigh the same, and the volume will be less since it's probably cast as one piece, with the frame made of light ribs, rather than a solid billet.  Aluminum would be lighter still, but aren't made for real hammers because, aluminum.

Now, start banging away at nails all day.  Build a deck.  Or maybe make a tree house.  Please report back and let us know which one is more effective.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's the steel one!
If you're relying solely on your own muscles, you're doing it wrong.

[Bandreus]

I think people are assuming that I'm thinking I can swing candy super fast because it's light... I'm actually saying that swinging something heavy is just that much slower... until your uber strong.

Maybe you should re-read your previous posts

Oh good lord...

Kinetic Energy which is the force you strike something with is equal to half the mass times the SQUARE of the velocity....

Which means that while the mass to force ratio is linear, speed to force is exponential, making speed to FAR more important.

[...]

but a candy cane mace is not made of bubble gum, it's a jaw breaker.  and a 25oz jaw breaker at 10mph will F@$#@ your stink up far worse than a 50oz steel hammer at 5mph.

I don't think you should feel like being flamed, since all I can see is people very politely replying to your assumptions with informed counter-arguments and reasonable explanations. Now, if someone went like 'LOL try killing a war jabberer with a featherwood mace and tell us how it goes' that might have been different.

Maybe a very weak, unskilled dorf might have some sort of benefit from a candy blunt weapon, but I personally never experimented with it. Might be a good opportunity for !!SCIENCE!! Although I guess it would be a very unwise use for candy to begin with.

[Porpoisepower]

I'm cool, I don't feel like people are being impolite.  I just wanted to stop arguing/instigating

[Urist MacNoob]

I've found steel to be just fine.

For armour, yes. But adamantine is brutal for edged weapons, and you don't need as much of it as you would for armour.

Pfah. Adamantine is for artifact socks, not, eugh, weapons.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

there's inertia. a heavier object would absorb more force to move, but it would also release more force upon whatever is trying to stop it from moving

[Porpoisepower]

ah yeah... forgot about inertia... That's the piece I was missing!