Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Leafsnail]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDyUvZkJiSc

[Lenglon]

You're trying to control the conversation and forcibly frame it in a manner that favors you.
this is a repeated tactic of yours, and you use it to bypass points or perspectives that do not favor you.
even now, you are refusing to address anything you don't have an answer to, and trying to force me to stop talking about it or even referring to it in a way that gives it legitimacy.
Deliberately and repeatedly doing such is completely unacceptable and it is exactly what you have done and you show no signs of stopping.

Toaster:Be your own spokesman, I can't put up with the fool you have doing your thinking for you.

[Leafsnail]

Toaster and/or Tiruin: Can you ask Lenglon what she thinks the puzzle is please?

[Leafsnail]

I am still really not sure what you're accusing me of.  Are you saying my original question was loaded?  I don't see how it was.  It was a straight up "what do you think the puzzle is" question, a question that you are still avoiding.

[Lenglon]

Now then, where was I?
oh yeah, consistancy.

See, the white swan's hairpins are a problem, because why are those black ones in there?
if it was a reference to the black swan, then why doesn't the black swan have white hairpins?

Jim's set still is a problem, because we don't have a good reason to remove them from our comparisons.

the puzzle being solved should not rely on specific people being lynched. it should be able to be solved from ANY combination of seven people still being alive. otherwise the puzzle could remain unsolvable at LYLO. yet if we assume that me, leaf, web 2, ottofar, web 1, toaster, and jim are all alive, then we wouldn't have the "solution" available for solving, due to lack of flips. assuming that Leaf's colors system is correct.

additionally, there's a key element missing, because we still haven't figured out why certain magics are occuring here.
Why were Toaster and I turned into humans?
Why was web able to remove her shoes?
Why is Leaf unable to remove her shoes?
Why weren't we able to identify Web1 until she was bitten?
What's up with jim?
How did ZU's protect work?
Tiruin's everything?
how could the prince not recognize his own younger brother?
It doesn't make sense to me that we'd have to totally abandon all sense of immersion in the world Vector created to solve the puzzle. It should be solvable by the characters we're attempting to roleplay, not just by the meta-characters doing the roleplaying. I seriously doubt that the Prince himself rigged his invitations to create a pattern based on colors, and one that identifies specific people as threats and others as safe. I strongly think that we're missing something regarding the origins of the magics causing all this, and I strongly doubt it was all about Jim since Jim's dead and I'm not a flower again. especially so since Jim was apparently a goddess of death and yet all these changes were changes to life, something that had been occurring since before the game began yet in Jim's role PM it was mentioned that her connection to life was tenuous while she still had her attendants.
So where's the magician?

[Vector]

...I won't leave until something's done right. The other girls should know what Horatio said, but at best at least one of them would get something good out of it. I think?

Try to find the Prince and..well, tell him of recent events as well as the corpse in his room.

...Try to be useful on his side.

You knock on the undercroft door.

"Enter," says Sigfred.  "It's open."

The undercroft is, rather than being packed with provisions, a low room strewn with papers and records.  Sigfred sits at the table, poring over ledgers and letters.  He still wears his brigandine and sword belt, but the gauntlets--and a heavy signet ring--sit piled beside him.  You clamber onto the nearby chair.  For a long time, there is no sound save the scratching of his quill, and your mutual guilty breathing.

As much as you would like to be useful to him, you cannot say a word.  You would like to convince yourself that all the things you have seen and heard are shadows--to be tossed aside like so much washwater--but some gestures cannot be taken back, and the raw purity of the Prince's innocence seems to be gone forever.  Or is it merely that you know too much, and can no longer see it glowing beneath his brigandine?

"I remember," says the Prince, "A time long-ago gone by."

He looks at you for a moment.  You look back, unmoving, and are unsure what you should do when he doesn't turn away after searching your face far too long.  Are you to leave?  To say something?  To reach out for him?

"I have a story I would tell," he says to you.  "Listen to me."

"I'll listen," you say.

He finally returns to his papers, shuffles through them but doesn't seem to read anything.  You resolve to keep your silence.  There is nothing for you to say, anyhow.

"When my brothers and I were boys," he begins, "we would often sneak away from the guards and play in the fields.  In the spring and summer, when the sun was high and the hay freshly growing.  We walked to the surrounding town, where they grew accustomed to seeing us.  And one day, when I had passed a mere six summers, we saw a woman, hooded, veiled, and barefoot.  All her body but feet and hands was shrouded by sheets of draped gray silk.  She stood tall in the crowd, who did not seem to observe her; standing still for a long time, until we brushed past her inadvertently.

"We thought little of it.  We were young.  She turned her head, slowly, to my elder brother--looked at him a moment--turned and walked away.  We returned to our games.

"It was a year before we saw her again.  Horatio was with us, disobedient for once, loyal as always.  Our mother the Queen had chastised us all terribly for laziness in our lessons, and Horatio as well.  By then, his parents had already succumbed to plague, and so the King and Queen had taken upon themselves the thankless task of educating and rearing their most faithful servants' only offspring.

"We were in among the hay teasing each other, comparing the stripes on our knuckles with great uproar and complaint, when she appeared.

"'Children,' she said with a voice we felt in the ground, 'does your Mother use you ill?'

"We said nothing for a moment, discomfited.  Of course we felt ill-used.  She had little time for us and the time left was occupied with rebuking us for our lack of skill in sums.  The nursemaids had other concerns than us.

"'Poor darlings,' she said, and--stroked the hair of we three brothers with cold hands, kissing and clucking over our wounded fists, and picking bits of straw from our clothes.

"'Please, milady, might we see your face?' Horatio asked her, but she continued to ignore him.

"We saw her more through the years to come.  At first she only tended to our bruises, but in time she became our confidante.  We told her of our Uncle Claudius' rumored evil and the fear of war with Norway as readily as we disclosed our childish hurts and budding affections, thinking nothing of it.

"Horatio she shunned.  Soon enough he would not play with us any longer.  His failures in education and arms had him working as a serving boy in my father's hall, as he was still too small to spend the whole of the day toiling in the fields.  He lived at my mother's knee, eagerly swallowing each scrap of favor she offered him--and would not have left her side gladly, even if we had not been occupied in ignoring him.

"And for us, we grew to call the lady in gray 'Mother' as well.  There was nothing unusual about it.  We called the goodwives 'aunty' and the old women 'grandmother.'  But Horatio seemed to feel this was a special betrayal, so we didn't tell our parents of it.

"When we saw her for the last time I was twelve years of age; Hamlet fourteen; and Charmerende, the youngest of us, only nine.  Horatio was passing his fifteenth summer scything hay, which suited us well.  He had withdrawn from our company entirely and seemed to know some dark secret he was resolved to keep to himself, as is the way of boys of his age.  If we observed in turn that he had begun to often appear at supper limping, or with a bruised face, we had learned to stop asking after him--for he never complained, and would only say that he had fallen down when pressed.

"We had to find other sources of diversion.

"So it was that we shirked yet another lesson and left for the fields.  Secretly we knew we were too old to be japing there--that we could be hurt by the harvesters if we were not careful--but we left all the same, since Charmerende had begged us and so loved to see the wild birds.

"We settled not too far from where Horatio was hard at work, resolving to throw clods of earth at him and make him pay attention to us for once--when the lady in gray appeared again, a basket over her arm.

"'Boys,' she said, 'I have brought you a gift.'

"We had not seen her in some months, and were eager for her attentions.  She had never brought us anything before.

"From her basket she extracted three fresh red apples, cold, red, and heavy, from which she offered one to each of us.  They were too large for me to easily grasp in one hand.  'Eat,' she said.

"Charmerende took a bite and spat it out, making a face.  Not so far away behind her I noticed, with some irritation, Horatio looking up from tying sheaves and squinting at us.

"'Why won't you eat, Sigfred?' Mother asked.  She rested a hand on Hamlet's shoulder as he licked juice from his palms, crunched at the apple core.  I remember his eagerness.  I remember his teeth.  'Eat, darling.  I brought it just for you.'

"'I'm sorry, Mother,' I said.  'I'm not hungry at the moment.'

"'You should come home with me today,' she said.  I imagined her smiling behind the veil.  'You can eat as much as you want there, when you're hungrier.'

"'This is too bitter,' said Charmerende.  He had tasted every bite and found it wanting.  'Don't you have any sweeter?'"

"'Ah yes, of course,' Mother said, reaching for my hand.  Behind her I saw Horatio trudging towards us, a sheaf weighing his shoulders.  'Come with me.'

"'What's this?' called Horatio, the perpetually underfoot.  'If it isn't you again, still hanging about the princes!'

"'Go away, Horatio,' said Charmerende, giving voice to all our feelings.  'You aren't wanted.'

"He came into our little circle, observing Hamlet sunk into Mother's side, Charmerende surrounded by spat-out bits of fruit, me frozen.

"'Who are you?' asked Horatio.  His voice cracked.  Mother ignored him.  'Hamlet, you're almost as old as I am and you mustn't behave like this anymore.  Before long you'll be king.  You have to concentrate on your studies now.  The crown prince can't just run off whenever he likes!'

"When none of us moved or paid him any mind he dropped his burden and reached for Hamlet.  Mother cracked Horatio across the face and he stumbled back, blood pouring out his nose, a hand to his cheek--which already looked odd, and began to swell immediately.

"He threw me over his shoulder, hoisted Charmerende under his arm, and ran as fast and as far as he could, all the way back to the road.  There he dropped us, panting, tears streaming down his gory face despite himself, and in the end it was the two of us who fetched the field hands and rode back to the castle with him, in a bailiff's cart.

"Hamlet returned the next day, indifferent and unaffectionate but with nothing to say about his time apart.  Mother and Father argued a great deal.  She demanded a second coronation ceremony.  He would have nothing of it, refused vehemently, and every time they were in the room together she would embrace one of us and look at him reproachfully.

"'Not for the sake of your sons?'

"Soon Charmerende and I were sent away to study in Germany.  Our father was assassinated, our mother remarried, and our uncle crowned while we still lived in lands distant, living contented, cosseted, careless lives for the better part of a decade.  Safe.  We mourned them and missed them, occasionally spoke of them, but did not mention our time in the fields together.  It seemed forbidden.  Charmerende was too busy chasing skirts.  I was too busy reading stories.  Though Hamlet came for a time to study in Wittenberg, we never saw him; and soon enough, he was gone again.

"We returned to Denmark only after the whole of Uncle Claudius' court had slaughtered each other and half the country gone to Fortinbras.  Horatio had lost all hint of gaiety and warmth, and Hamlet was sour.  He, too, managed to refuse his official coronation for a time, citing mourning and lack of ability; when the date was at long last set, he disappeared into the snow, still unknown to us, and that was all I saw of him."

The Prince falls silent.


"Did that really happen?" you ask him.

"No, of course not," he says, staring at his papers.  "It was just a dream I had once, that's all; a poisonous mix of memory and fairytale better not remembered."

[Leafsnail]

See, the white swan's hairpins are a problem, because why are those black ones in there?
if it was a reference to the black swan, then why doesn't the black swan have white hairpins?

The black swan does have white hairpins.

Jim's set still is a problem, because we don't have a good reason to remove them from our comparisons.

We aren't "removing" them so much as just not adding in the first place them because they clearly do not form part of the colour triangle, or have any colour at all.

the puzzle being solved should not rely on specific people being lynched. it should be able to be solved from ANY combination of seven people still being alive. otherwise the puzzle could remain unsolvable at LYLO. yet if we assume that me, leaf, web 2, ottofar, web 1, toaster, and jim are all alive, then we wouldn't have the "solution" available for solving, due to lack of flips. assuming that Leaf's colors system is correct.

The scenario you've described is not lylo.  It's "town is outnumbered and has to rely on luck in order to have any chance of winning".

Leaving that aside, I think you're incorrect.  Let's assume that all three mafia members have fabricated their claims.  Let's say that at this point someone realizes the significance of the colours puzzle.  They notice that three of the current claims correspond perfectly to white, red and black.  Then, they read the White Swan's claim and hear about the Black Swan - it's clear that the Black Swan must be evil, due to her nature in Swan Lake.  This gets the person thinking - Toaster's claim is red.  And NQT's roleflip implies that there are two flowers present - a lily, generally white, and a rose, generally red.  So perhaps there's also a lily role unclaimed.  They complete the pattern by supposing that the black roleclaim has a red counterpart (this one would be easier due to the fact that webadict II would be dancing at people).  Then, starting from the assumption that the Black Swan is mafia, they create their black-red-white team: Black Swan, white lily, Red Shoes.

Sure, it's difficult, but if the town gets into that bad a situation then it should be difficult for them to instantly turn it around.  The puzzle becomes much easier if you lynch mafia members, which makes sense as good scumhunting should be rewarded.

additionally, there's a key element missing, because we still haven't figured out why certain magics are occuring here.
Why were Toaster and I turned into humans?
Why was web able to remove her shoes?
Why is Leaf unable to remove her shoes?
Why weren't we able to identify Web1 until she was bitten?
What's up with jim?
How did ZU's protect work?
Tiruin's everything?
how could the prince not recognize his own younger brother?

The hell?  Why would a puzzle to find who is scum address any of these things?  These things are clearly meant to just be aspects of the flavour rather than mysteries to be solved (except maybe the flower girls thing, but I still believe that was just Jim.  Jim probably only became a god of death after she died, since her old powers didn't kill anyone).  I will not accept this point unless you can give me a theory that explains any of these.

Also I explained why these shoes were cursed to my feet so way to pay attention.

It doesn't make sense to me that we'd have to totally abandon all sense of immersion in the world Vector created to solve the puzzle. It should be solvable by the characters we're attempting to roleplay, not just by the meta-characters doing the roleplaying. I seriously doubt that the Prince himself rigged his invitations to create a pattern based on colors, and one that identifies specific people as threats and others as safe. I strongly think that we're missing something regarding the origins of the magics causing all this, and I strongly doubt it was all about Jim since Jim's dead and I'm not a flower again. especially so since Jim was apparently a goddess of death and yet all these changes were changes to life, something that had been occurring since before the game began yet in Jim's role PM it was mentioned that her connection to life was tenuous while she still had her attendants.
So where's the magician?

So how exactly does this proposed "where's the magician" puzzle work?  What are the hints, and how does it point to people as scum?

I think the explanation for the puzzle in-universe is related to Jim again, by the way.  As a Goddess of Order, she subconsciously wanted to make sure the threats to the Prince formed a coherent pattern.

[Tiruin]

So I fell asleep again via physical collapse on my books. Hooray sleeping pattern.

Still rereading and matching.

See, the white swan's hairpins are a problem, because why are those black ones in there?
if it was a reference to the black swan, then why doesn't the black swan have white hairpins?

The black swan does have white hairpins.

I think she means Why doesn't the black swan have black hairpins.

the puzzle being solved should not rely on specific people being lynched. it should be able to be solved from ANY combination of seven people still being alive. otherwise the puzzle could remain unsolvable at LYLO. yet if we assume that me, leaf, web 2, ottofar, web 1, toaster, and jim are all alive, then we wouldn't have the "solution" available for solving, due to lack of flips. assuming that Leaf's colors system is correct.

The scenario you've described is not lylo.  It's "town is outnumbered and has to rely on luck in order to have any chance of winning".

Leaving that aside, I think you're incorrect.  Let's assume that all three mafia members have fabricated their claims.  Let's say that at this point someone realizes the significance of the colours puzzle.  They notice that three of the current claims correspond perfectly to white, red and black.  Then, they read the White Swan's claim and hear about the Black Swan - it's clear that the Black Swan must be evil, due to her nature in Swan Lake.  This gets the person thinking - Toaster's claim is red.  And NQT's roleflip implies that there are two flowers present - a lily, generally white, and a rose, generally red.  So perhaps there's also a lily role unclaimed.  They complete the pattern by supposing that the black roleclaim has a red counterpart (this one would be easier due to the fact that webadict II would be dancing at people).  Then, starting from the assumption that the Black Swan is mafia, they create their black-red-white team: Black Swan, white lily, Red Shoes.

Sure, it's difficult, but if the town gets into that bad a situation then it should be difficult for them to instantly turn it around.  The puzzle becomes much easier if you lynch mafia members, which makes sense as good scumhunting should be rewarded.

...I'm not in that list? D: You guys don't know my role. :I
Anyway: The situation is more like 3 Town 3 Scum and 1 SK...I really think its LYLO. Only that Town can't win as long as Jim is still there (the Town wincon is screwy though. The Prince is not under any attack. BUT HIS HONOR {reputation, kingdom, all those other stuff...} IS!) which goes to scum, too.

Let's list it up:

Leafsnail
Tiruin, who shall not be named - Yeah.
Lenglon
Toaster
Webadict [We know this person is TOWN]
Griffionday the Hopeful Prince
Ottofar [We know this person is SCUM]
Solifuge, AKA Lovelace
notquitethere the Gardener-Sage
RangerCado => zombieurist, AKA Hypatia
Griffinpup => TheWetSheep the Balalaika Player
Okami no Rei => Webadict [We know this person is SCUM]
Jim Groovestar [We know this person is AN SK]

Claimcons:

Town: All threats to the prince are eliminated. [Go NQT, You really missed this point back in the day and said 'kill' instead.]
Scum: Everyone outside the cohort is dead.
SK: Kill kill kill ahhahahahahaha kill everyone!

>	Kill all the other prospective brides. You may continue speaking with the dead. You may kill one person each night by dreaming with them.  As such this kill cannot be blocked.

...In retrospect, Webadict is playing two roles here, so the situation is blatantly funny out of context, really.
Anyway:
How will town even know the puzzle now, huh? I think I'm getting Lenglon's point here wherein the process is mostly the first step: How will they get it?

So let's say that all three have fabricated their claims. How? In what manner? In answering this, you'd be conclusing the second bolded sentence, wherein I insert the same: "How."

The realization was subjective in that currently, Leafsnail probably got it after watching:
a. Anime
b. Checkin' the red shoes of Webadict.

In supposing the roles are fakeclaimed -- add in the query, "Why would they fakeclaim." But for all other reasons, let's say they claimed the truth and lie instead on their actions.

The part I've strikethrough'd is where it diverges. How will you match those colors when the colors are all vague, now? The statement of finding the puzzle only relies, now, on scumhunting.

tl;dr: You can't solve the puzzle by itself.

Leafsnail: Why is being passive a scumtell? What context makes it not a scumtell?

I think the explanation for the puzzle in-universe is related to Jim again, by the way.  As a Goddess of Order, she subconsciously wanted to make sure the threats to the Prince formed a coherent pattern.

Jim was never a Goddess of Order. She fakeclaimed that into a Goddess of DEATH.

[Tiruin]

Warn the Prince of what the peasants think. Meaning what Horatio thinks--and..and then tell him what Horatio told me one evening under the light of the moon.

[Leafsnail]

I think she means Why doesn't the black swan have black hairpins.

They may each have hairpins that remind them of their mortal enemy (or possibly they swapped them at some point).  The white swan only has two white hairpins - it's possible the black swan returned some to her before she died.

The realization was subjective in that currently, Leafsnail probably got it after watching:
a. Anime
b. Checkin' the red shoes of Webadict.

That's true (well not entirely, it was a manga).  But the fact that I needed a roleflip to finally kick my brain into gear doesn't mean that it'd be impossible for someone else to arrive at the solution without one.  As I said before, the "white dresses stained red with blood" in one of the early flavour posts could have given me the same clue if I were more on the ball.

In supposing the roles are fakeclaimed -- add in the query, "Why would they fakeclaim." But for all other reasons, let's say they claimed the truth and lie instead on their actions.

Then it would be easy to solve the puzzle.  You could identify the three colour pairs, realize that the Black Swan has doomed herself by claiming a role that's obviously scum, and work out who the other mafia members are by having realized that
a) One person in each colour pair is scum
b) The mafia team is made up of one person of each colour

The puzzle only becomes hard if the mafia team fakeclaims.  Then again, fakeclaiming in this game would be staggeringly difficult, considering how much flavour Vector put into all the roles.

...I'm not in that list? D: You guys don't know my role. :I
Anyway: The situation is more like 3 Town 3 Scum and 1 SK...I really think its LYLO. Only that Town can't win as long as Jim is still there (the Town wincon is screwy though. The Prince is not under any attack. BUT HIS HONOR {reputation, kingdom, all those other stuff...} IS!) which goes to scum, too.

It's not lylo, though.  Lylo implies "You have to lynch scum in order to win".  In this situation, lynching scum can make you lose, and you can lose even if you lynch scum every time.  Or you could win on a no lynch.  It just isn't lylo in any sense of the word.

The part I've strikethrough'd is where it diverges. How will you match those colors when the colors are all vague, now? The statement of finding the puzzle only relies, now, on scumhunting.

tl;dr: You can't solve the puzzle by itself.

The black/white swan thing is totally unambiguous.  Then there are red and white shoes, which are also fairly easy to see the link between.  Then you look at the flowers: traditionally white and red.  There, you have your colour triangle - no roleflips needed.  Now lynch the Black Swan and you're good to go.

Leafsnail: Why is being passive a scumtell? What context makes it not a scumtell?

Townies want to make mafia members get lynched.  Mafia members don't care and just want to live until the next day.  Being passive forwards the mafia win condition and harms the town win condition.

It's not a scumtell if the player in question is lazy or bad.

I think the explanation for the puzzle in-universe is related to Jim again, by the way.  As a Goddess of Order, she subconsciously wanted to make sure the threats to the Prince formed a coherent pattern.

Jim was never a Goddess of Order. She fakeclaimed that into a Goddess of DEATH.
[/quote]

[Tiruin]

The realization was subjective in that currently, Leafsnail probably got it after watching:
a. Anime
b. Checkin' the red shoes of Webadict.

That's true (well not entirely, it was a manga).  But the fact that I needed a roleflip to finally kick my brain into gear doesn't mean that it'd be impossible for someone else to arrive at the solution without one.[...]

[/quote]It took quite a long time before anyone thought of any color and that maybe perhaps the puzzle would've associated with color contrasts and combinations, and then in said context, would be pointing at the essence of said context. All of which I was watchiing before, sans the essence. So there's my two cents on the matter.

That and I don't watch Tv too much because books and either writing or drawing or gaming. >_<

Anyway.

The puzzle only becomes hard if the mafia team fakeclaims.  Then again, fakeclaiming in this game would be staggeringly difficult, considering how much flavour Vector put into all the roles.

In Lenglon's context:
The Black Swan could claim something alluding to a fairytale which included swans that was benevolent.
The Red Shoes could claim whatever (say: White shoes, given how original-origin it was)
And the lily could claim a..well, many variants. Water lilies, land-based lilies..she could claim violet and/or red given the idea and we'll all be lost.
...I'm unsure if Iron can resemble any other color than metallic. Because if colors were such, why isn't your shoes and/or personal effects include oil or whatever is used to prevent rust?

The black/white swan thing is totally unambiguous.  Then there are red and white shoes, which are also fairly easy to see the link between.  Then you look at the flowers: traditionally white and red.  There, you have your colour triangle - no roleflips needed.  Now lynch the Black Swan and you're good to go.

...Web did say 'originally white' then became red hinting that he had no idea on the puzzle at hand.
...Err, red and white shoes? I thought yours was black.

Townies want to make mafia members get lynched.  Mafia members don't care and just want to live until the next day.  Being passive forwards the mafia win condition and harms the town win condition.

It's not a scumtell if the player in question is lazy or bad.

I really think its in what a person says instead of posting a heck lot of trivial posts or seemingly important but mostly fluff posts.
...Tiruin looks at ZU.
I mean, some people excel in making and using...very short posts.

They may each have hairpins that remind them of their mortal enemy (or possibly they swapped them at some point).  The white swan only has two white hairpins - it's possible the black swan returned some to her before she died.

Interesting that you know. . .

I think the explanation for the puzzle in-universe is related to Jim again, by the way.  As a Goddess of Order, she subconsciously wanted to make sure the threats to the Prince formed a coherent pattern.

Jim was never a Goddess of Order. She fakeclaimed that into a Goddess of DEATH.

[/quote]Broken sentence detected. Query on what was to be said?

[Tiruin]

...Also what was the pot of lotion for?

[Leafsnail]

The Black Swan could claim something alluding to a fairytale which included swans that was benevolent.

But the Black Swan is mentioned in the role PM of a town player, the White Swan.  So they'd be called out for faking their claim instantly.

The Red Shoes could claim whatever (say: White shoes, given how original-origin it was)

Sure, but once the other two pairs had been identified that wouldn't help her much.

And the lily could claim a..well, many variants. Water lilies, land-based lilies..she could claim violet and/or red given the idea and we'll all be lost.

Except no, they couldn't.  That's because of NQT's role PM, that mentions lilies and roses.  Claiming any variant on lily would make it obvious that they're lying.  Also lilies are traditionally white so she couldn't fake the colour.

...I'm unsure if Iron can resemble any other color than metallic. Because if colors were such, why isn't your shoes and/or personal effects include oil or whatever is used to prevent rust?

Cast iron is generally black (think frying pans), and I don't think it rusts away either.

...Web did say 'originally white' then became red hinting that he had no idea on the puzzle at hand.
...Err, red and white shoes? I thought yours was black.

I meant black and red.  And the mafia may or may not have worked out the puzzle - if they did, they certainly wouldn't want to tell the town about it.

I really think its in what a person says instead of posting a heck lot of trivial posts or seemingly important but mostly fluff posts.
...Tiruin looks at ZU.
I mean, some people excel in making and using...very short posts.

ZU was just being lazy though.

Interesting that you know. . .

I don't "know", I came up with a theory.  I'm trying to come up with answers, unlike Lenglon who's just throwing any oddity at me and declaring that the problem is insoluble.

Broken sentence detected. Query on what was to be said?

I meant to say she turned into a goddess of death after her followers died.  Because her previous powers had nothing to do with death.

[Toaster]

Lenglon:

Toaster:Be your own spokesman, I can't put up with the fool you have doing your thinking for you.

The key point is that I agree with Leaf's interpretation of the puzzle, and that said interpretation of the puzzle points directly at you being scum.  Now your responses to Leaf consist mainly of "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."  That only leads me to one question:

If Leaf's puzzle proposal is incorrect, what is the puzzle here?

You're trying to control the conversation and forcibly frame it in a manner that favors you.

This is practically a soft scum claim.  If you're saying that trying to figure out the puzzle favors Leaf, then by what Vector said:

This game has been intentionally balanced so that elegance mildly favors Good (unconventional information present), and brute force mildly favors Evil (conventional information withheld).  Both courses are winnable for both sides.  Brute force will give Good some nasty surprises, and elegance will give Good some pleasant ones.  That's inverted for Evil, though everyone can benefit some from both methods.

...you must be Evil.



Getting interrupted here- haven't read this post or beyond yet.  May be more to add to priors as well.

[Lenglon]

Toaster: no, I'm saying that he's twisting my words, quotemining, and trying to repeatedly change the context of the discussion. You also appear to have ignored This post and This one, completely.