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Author Topic: The Lonely Prince: He Who Shall Serve  (Read 194184 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #930 on: October 12, 2013, 06:47:48 am »

Ok, Leaf, we appear to have totally different ideas on how a decoy works. What I've been trying to point out is that there are too many examples and yet you can't fit them all to the same rules.
So you're saying that yes, Vector deliberately put all those instances of colours into the game, but that she's doing it to mislead us?  Why?  We know for a fact that there is a puzzle in this game.  We know that Vector wants us to solve this puzzle.  Why would she deliberately mislead us by hinting at an irrelevant line of inquiry?

case in point, what color is jim?.
I've already said several times that I don't think every player needs to have a colour anymore - my solution works absolutely fine if you just consider me/webadict II, webadict I/Ottofar and you/Toaster.  However, I'd say she probably represents all three colours, due to being an innocent girl, an experienced dreamer and a god of death all at the same time.

This is a classic deception technique, similar to looking at a set of inkblots and trying to find a pattern, what their "real meaning" is. the reality is there is no pattern, and it's just a set of inkblots. You're finding images in the clouds.
Again, you are contradicting yourself.  You can't seem to decide whether the pattern is a red herring/decoy planted by the mod, or an entirely coincidental pattern that means nothing.  It can't be both.

I would say that your previous post provides strong evidence against this idea.  Can it really be a coincidence that Vector repeatedly put red/white/black together, and also put in 3 pairs that clearly correspond to those colours?

It's one of the easiest ways to make someone work really hard to trick themselves, like saying to someone, "I'll give you a hint before I say the number two", then slowly saying a series of numbers and clapping in a random, unrelated pattern... while shifting your right foot thirty degrees to the side two numbers before you say the number two each time. obvservers will pay very close attention to the obvious signal which contains ZERO meaning and fail to notice the real, far more subtle, one.

stop listening to the random clapping and look for the real signal.
And now you're back to saying it's a decoy again?  Seriously, pick one theory and stick to it.  In any case, if you think Vector gave a subtler clue, then what is it?  Does it relate to the colours, which we've now established feature very heavily in the flavour?  I don't think you can make this argument unless you can say what the real signal is, or at least what evidence suggests that Vector was trying to mislead us with the colours.


You idiotically confused what time period i was talking about in my accusation of Leaf posting a complex idea requiring significant research "too fast". Leaf claimed to have the solution within seven hours of day start, in his first post of the day. yet he said that he needed data that he acquired today to reach that solution. that is awfully fast, especially if you consider what time of day the day started and compare it to leaf's normal activity patterns. leaf had his "solution" within the first hour of his normal activity patterns. He didn't collect any data today, he had it all overnight. so then, why:
PFP I guessed he was bussing when I realized Lenglon was scum earlier today.
He should have come to that conclusion overnight. what he remembers is when he claimed I was scum, not when he did his research. He is more focused on the appearance than the reality.
There's absolutely no contradiction here.  I came up with a solution during the night, then obtained a bit more data and did a bit more thinking in the day and confirmed it (while also refining my solution a bit - the original version assumed that all players had a colour).

Leaf: no, really, if you're going to make the case that it would be easier to mark Tiruin as scum than me, then prove it. You said you'd make stuff up to make things look like that as scum, show us an example why don't you? after all, it'll be easy, won't it? you said so yourself.
Why should I?  Tiruin asked me a question, and I answered it.  I'm not presenting it as evidence that I'm town or claiming I ran some kind of simulation that showed that lynching Tiruin would be easier, I am just stating what I would have done in that situation.

If I wanted to attack Tiruin I'd go down the active-lurking route.  She's been asking a lot of questions of Vector, sure, but they've never really gone anywhere or given us any clues as to who is scum.  Same for asking a lot of questions that require a lot of effort from other players.  There's also the confusion over what her role actually does, and her refusal to claim outright (see: TM7 in which she did that and was a hostile third-party).  Lastly, there's the fact that she has nothing even approaching alibi for any night, which is untrue of the rest of us (Toaster was seen by you N4; you had the webadict following N3 which I don't think anyone else would've thought of as a bus; and webadict claimed to block me N2, leaving open the question of where his block went if not me).  That's more than enough for me to start a hostile argument with her and generate material.  I can't tell you it would have worked for sure, but I can tell you that I'd see it as a good chance.
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Leafsnail

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #931 on: October 12, 2013, 06:50:27 am »

That is a lie, I never said such a thing.
Also, Tiruin has now demonstrated her claimed ability. if Jim didn't try to kill Tiruin last night, where else did Jim's kill go?
This post strongly implied it, though.  Toaster certainly picked up that impression, and you didn't correct him.  You're correct that I misremembered and that I was actually responding to Toaster, though.
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Lenglon

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #932 on: October 12, 2013, 06:57:19 am »

This post strongly implied it, though.  Toaster certainly picked up that impression, and you didn't correct him.  You're correct that I misremembered and that I was actually responding to Toaster, though.
really?
REALLY?
how thick are you anyway?
Gee, lets see, my main lines of inquiry on days three AND four were about Tiruin probably lying in her roleclaim.
then I say something on Day 5 that says the night results from night 4 show that her roleclaim was probably true after all.
how on earth does that say jack squat about her alignment?
Leaf: If you've been studying my posts like you say you have, how could you possibly make such a basic mistake?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Tiruin

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #933 on: October 12, 2013, 07:50:06 am »

Erm, now that exams are more than not over, and I'm under signal 3 (wooo college people are waterproof T_T) here, I'm reading back.

...Lenglon does have a point though. That seems to be more of pulling a quote out of context [quotemining?] than..well, a logical reason. Check the notes before said quote.
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Leafsnail

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #934 on: October 12, 2013, 07:53:44 am »

Well, if you look at it in context, ie with the post immediately before it:
her alibi is weaker than the rest, but spending time with Horatio having a long discusion and still being asleep when you reached her, combined with the agressive reaction she had to the taste of dirt (gravedirt?) makes it seem unlikely to me that she is our final foe.
Also, Tiruin has now demonstrated her claimed ability. if Jim didn't try to kill Tiruin last night, where else did Jim's kill go?
You put "also" just after a post where you explained why you thought Tiruin was town.  That made it sound like an extension of that post.

In addition, if you think this misinterpretation is so scummy, why didn't you say so to Toaster, who obviously got the same impression that I did?  Why didn't you even try to clarify at any point?
Good point, but you're assuming that she can't be both NK immune and scum.
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Lenglon

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #935 on: October 12, 2013, 07:55:43 am »

Because of gigantic walls of text making it difficult to keep track of everything that was being said.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Tiruin

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #936 on: October 12, 2013, 07:56:07 am »

In addition, if you think this misinterpretation is so scummy, why didn't you say so to Toaster, who obviously got the same impression that I did?  Why didn't you even try to clarify at any point?
Good point, but you're assuming that she can't be both NK immune and scum.
Erm, wait, wasn't that also your context given that your main reason was by the puzzle?

PFRB - Posting from reading back
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Leafsnail

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #937 on: October 12, 2013, 07:58:41 am »

Because of gigantic walls of text making it difficult to keep track of everything that was being said.
So the fact that there were gigantic walls of text present made it harder to read Toaster's one-line post, that was clearly responding to you?

Erm, wait, wasn't that also your context given that your main reason was by the puzzle?

PFRB - Posting from reading back
I don't understand what you mean.
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Leafsnail

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #938 on: October 12, 2013, 07:59:47 am »

In any case, if you make an ambiguous post and then don't issue a clarification when someone misinterprets it, I think the fault lies with you.
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Lenglon

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #939 on: October 12, 2013, 08:00:12 am »

I'm kinda distracted right now because of kitty videos, but are there any questions for me in that mess? I'll try to get a more proper analysis of the situation done sometime tomorrow and respond to it as a whole then, but actual questions I'll handle now if you bold them for me.
here, since you apparently didn't notice, is the first post I make after the linked toaster quote, a full page afterwards and with half a dozen giant walls of text in between.

shockingly enough, when it wasn't brought up afterwards, I didn't worry about it.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Lenglon

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #940 on: October 12, 2013, 08:01:12 am »

In any case, if you make an ambiguous post and then don't issue a clarification when someone misinterprets it, I think the fault lies with you.
When you phrase descriptions of my statements to twist their meaning and change their intent, the fault lies fully with you.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Tiruin

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #941 on: October 12, 2013, 08:07:51 am »

I'd really love Toaster to talk more :I
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Lenglon

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #942 on: October 12, 2013, 08:11:55 am »

I'd really love Toaster to talk more :I
As would I, his concerns and yours are the ones that actually matter to me. I'm trying to address Leaf's since Toaster keeps deferring to him, but I'd prefer it if Toaster would speak for himself. Leaf is going to continue to harp at me until day's end because he knows it's the only way his cohort can win this.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Lenglon

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #943 on: October 12, 2013, 09:52:03 am »

-snip-
So you're saying that yes, Vector deliberately put all those instances of colours into the game, but that she's doing it to mislead us?  Why?  We know for a fact that there is a puzzle in this game.  We know that Vector wants us to solve this puzzle.  Why would she deliberately mislead us by hinting at an irrelevant line of inquiry?

case in point, what color is jim?.
I've already said several times that I don't think every player needs to have a colour anymore - my solution works absolutely fine if you just consider me/webadict II, webadict I/Ottofar and you/Toaster.  However, I'd say she probably represents all three colours, due to being an innocent girl, an experienced dreamer and a god of death all at the same time.
here's the problem - why only those pairings? why is the Jim-set excluded? why is the Day-set excluded? if the colors had meanings, then why don't those meaning apply universally? where were the hints to limit them to those specific sets and not to the others?
what about Tiruin? how does she fit in the picture? what do the colors mean to her?
Your theory is incomplete, and you're having to stretch to make it even include the three sets you're trying to make it include. where's the "red" from the ottofar/web 1 set? how is NQT "black"?
why does the "white" swan have "black" hairpins?
-snip-
Again, you are contradicting yourself.  You can't seem to decide whether the pattern is a red herring/decoy planted by the mod, or an entirely coincidental pattern that means nothing.  It can't be both.

I would say that your previous post provides strong evidence against this idea.  Can it really be a coincidence that Vector repeatedly put red/white/black together, and also put in 3 pairs that clearly correspond to those colours?
-snip-
And now you're back to saying it's a decoy again?  Seriously, pick one theory and stick to it.  In any case, if you think Vector gave a subtler clue, then what is it?  Does it relate to the colours, which we've now established feature very heavily in the flavour?  I don't think you can make this argument unless you can say what the real signal is, or at least what evidence suggests that Vector was trying to mislead us with the colours.
Please, please tell me you're faking this. look, the decoy flavor does not have a consistent pattern, that is the sign that it is a decoy in the first place! yes it is inconsistent! yes, it is a decoy! THESE TWO FACTS ARE DIRECTLY RELATED. Did or did you not notice that giant red herring speel that was given to Tiruin earlier? did you notice the repeated emphasis on it being crimson? What does irrelevant information being correlated with the color red have to do with the puzzle?
-snip-
There's absolutely no contradiction here.  I came up with a solution during the night, then obtained a bit more data and did a bit more thinking in the day and confirmed it (while also refining my solution a bit - the original version assumed that all players had a colour).
If you figured it out during the night, then under what solution was I not already marked as your target for today? Your post said that you didn't think I was scum until during the day.

oh, and here's a fun little question for you. - why do you keep assuming in your defense regarding the sheep-kill that you and web knew that you'd be weakened from doing so? Jim became stronger in isolation, Toaster and I were unharmed by the death of NQT, and if you look at web's role PM, there were only signs that web actively wanted the musician dead, despite the fact that web was weakened by the death of sheep. So what is that all about anyway?

why do you and web supposedly have such different views of the musician (sheep) and yet toaster and I view NQT the exact same, and jim's followers both revered and protected him. why is your flavor-claim inconsitant with both set's flavor?

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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Leafsnail

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Re: The Lonely Prince, Day Five: Death and the Virgin
« Reply #944 on: October 12, 2013, 10:42:24 am »

here, since you apparently didn't notice, is the first post I make after the linked toaster quote, a full page afterwards and with half a dozen giant walls of text in between.

shockingly enough, when it wasn't brought up afterwards, I didn't worry about it.
Again, I don't see how there being walls of text prevents you from reading a short and succinct post that came immediately after yours.
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