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[Lenglon]

Toaster: to be clear, the deceptive trick here that Leaf is pulling and you apparently fell for is that he phrased his statements and questions such that the only place the puzzle could possibly be is in the colors. as I have said, the puzzle is not in the colors, the colors are overly inconsistant and meta-based, as well as being unreliably available to the town, relying on us having specific players flip to be able to be found. by phrasing things such that "the puzzle" and "the colors" are treated as equivelant, he is making you assume implicitly that he has the correct location for the puzzle.

seriously toaster, SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. if you agree with leaf, then say it yourself. I will not have anything to do with someone who pulls that kind of trick on a regular basis.

[Tiruin]

Unvote.
Re-read nearly done seeing as I've but one more exam to finish.

Lenglon's notes do confer to a serious point.

The puzzle being solved should not rely on specific people being lynched.

However at the latest of notes do I need to see her viewpoint on, specifically what Leafsnail has mentioned regarding the puzzle.

But I've to fully agree with her point on Toaster. He's been...quite flippant with mostly everything in-game.

oh, and here's a fun little question for you. - why do you keep assuming in your defense regarding the sheep-kill that you and web knew that you'd be weakened from doing so? Jim became stronger in isolation, Toaster and I were unharmed by the death of NQT, and if you look at web's role PM, there were only signs that web actively wanted the musician dead, despite the fact that web was weakened by the death of sheep. So what is that all about anyway?

Here's another answer- one triple had a strengthening effect, one had a weakening effect, and one had no effect.

and yet web 2's role pm only hinted that he wanted the musician dead, mine had no hints on how I'd react to NQT's death, Jim's followers also didn't know how their deaths would affect jim, and yet Leafsnail, alone of all the members of all the trios, supposedly knew what would happen.
Leaf was speculating at best, and to be quite blunt, Leaf has had zero interactions with the rest of us all game. He's had every opportunity to lie about his flavor anytime he wanted.

This note is crucial. The affects were not directly stated, however I do plainly recall that ZU said 'Bad things will happen' if both of them die, in regard to the Goddess.

In which I call out Toaster//Leafsnail, specifically the former for...a very bad vote. Toaster: Did you not care to explain your gut read back then despite the everything ZU said? How can one's intuition (or in cruder terms, the gut >_<) conclude a lie from his words back in the day preceding his lynch?

Leafsnail had an understandable reason (can't search for it now, it's back there-linkable, searchengine does not agree with my terms) being as he kept on repeating the note on passivity.

Leafsnail: Difference between ZU's passivity and Lenglon's?

Vector: You have wine as an avatar..I liked the last one. Why'd you change it? Timecount please.

[Vector]

I changed it because I felt like changing it.

Day end is scheduled for tomorrow, Monday, at 7:00 PM (-8GMT).  No further extensions on today are available.

[Lenglon]

However at the latest of notes do I need to see her viewpoint on, specifically what Leafsnail has mentioned regarding the puzzle.

Um, Leaf has said a lot regarding what he thinks the puzzle is, what part of that do you want me to comment on?

[Leafsnail]

But I've to fully agree with her point on Toaster. He's been...quite flippant with mostly everything in-game.

But he's town.  Also I'd seriously recommend re-voting.  Otherwise Lenglon would be able to tie the vote and bring us into a wonky lylo that she could win through deadline shenanigans.

In which I call out Toaster//Leafsnail, specifically the former for...a very bad vote. Toaster: Did you not care to explain your gut read back then despite the everything ZU said? How can one's intuition (or in cruder terms, the gut >_<) conclude a lie from his words back in the day preceding his lynch?

Toaster is definitely not the person who killed Jim.  So why does it matter why he made his vote on day two?  There's no point in grilling a confirmed townie - you can criticize his tactics after the game is finished.

Leafsnail: Difference between ZU's passivity and Lenglon's?

I guess it would be that Lenglon was there, and actually making posts, and spending quite a lot of time on her posts, but not attempting to find scum in any way.  At the time I thought the same of ZU, but reading back I guess his posts do make sense from someone who is just heavily demotivated (they wouldn't have required much time to make, while Lenglon's would have)

[Tiruin]

However at the latest of notes do I need to see her viewpoint on, specifically what Leafsnail has mentioned regarding the puzzle.

Um, Leaf has said a lot regarding what he thinks the puzzle is, what part of that do you want me to comment on?

...Yes, but there are notes wherein you can debunk it. Erm, little time now--posting to say that there's an incomplete feeling when reading your interpretation.

Toaster: If people haven't proven you town in the situation beforehand, then you would've, and still should've been my prime suspect..mostly due to playstyle.

Lenglon:

Toaster:Be your own spokesman, I can't put up with the fool you have doing your thinking for you.

The key point is that I agree with Leaf's interpretation of the puzzle, and that said interpretation of the puzzle points directly at you being scum.  Now your responses to Leaf consist mainly of "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."  That only leads me to one question:

If Leaf's puzzle proposal is incorrect, what is the puzzle here?

Why propose her to give her own response to the puzzle? Would a more significant explanation persuade you? Do you sincerely agree in full to Leaf's without any implications?

But I've to fully agree with her point on Toaster. He's been...quite flippant with mostly everything in-game.

But he's town.  Also I'd seriously recommend re-voting.  Otherwise Lenglon would be able to tie the vote and bring us into a wonky lylo that she could win through deadline shenanigans.

In which I call out Toaster//Leafsnail, specifically the former for...a very bad vote. Toaster: Did you not care to explain your gut read back then despite the everything ZU said? How can one's intuition (or in cruder terms, the gut >_<) conclude a lie from his words back in the day preceding his lynch?

Toaster is definitely not the person who killed Jim.  So why does it matter why he made his vote on day two?  There's no point in grilling a confirmed townie - you can criticize his tactics after the game is finished.

Leafsnail: Difference between ZU's passivity and Lenglon's?

I guess it would be that Lenglon was there, and actually making posts, and spending quite a lot of time on her posts, but not attempting to find scum in any way.  At the time I thought the same of ZU, but reading back I guess his posts do make sense from someone who is just heavily demotivated (they wouldn't have required much time to make, while Lenglon's would have)

Grilling here = thoroughness. Yes it seems repetitive, but I'd at least want to make the best of every post space I have here (and if the scum is Lenglon--she's very well dead given the evidence presented, as well as the current time being a learning lesson If its LS then thrice darnit. However my read has stabilized on null ever since I'm doing my re-read.)
{Also day ends on my Tuesday so I've got time.
...But yeah. Current life events and emotions may stop me from posting. Lenglon.}

Part of the unvoting is that, I'm unconsciously being affected by meta on a point. Working back on that one [rebel/spy] mafia wherein Lenglon was town, and in my personal opinion the only cause for me not believing her was due to her predecessor's actions...well, the blow hit me despite intangible alarms telling me otherwise on her scumminess. In this situation, it is different, but I can't just throw the game into a mass shorten without being fully sure.

...Also why aren't we no lynching again? I thought it out and (well, given LS' case and the difference between stating the mechanic of a shorten/extend and a red vote) that the best possible way to eliminate suspects is to either kill me [ahahaha] or Toaster in the situation if Lenglon is scum-or that she doesn't kill. She must track Leafsnail in that situation.

I changed it because I felt like changing it.

No offense intended! I also like the wine (just that I can't relate to it because of its nature).

[Leafsnail]

I don't really see what we could gain from no lynching.  Toaster would die and Lenglon would say she tracked me to the kill, and we'd be back in the same situation again.

[Leafsnail]

Well I guess there's a benefit in that it could eliminate Tiruin as a scum suspect.  Are you worried about the possibility that you're scum, Tiruin ?

[Vector]

First of all, for everyone's I, I've had two drops of alcohol in my life and that was it.  I don't drink, period.

Second of all, I don't choose my avatars for relatability.  I pick them based on what makes me happy.  In this case, what made me happy was the Hokusai wave in the wine.

[Toaster]

Lenglon:

Toaster: no, I'm saying that he's twisting my words, quotemining, and trying to repeatedly change the context of the discussion. You also appear to have ignored This post and This one, completely.

Getting interrupted here- haven't read this post or beyond yet.  May be more to add to priors as well.

But he's not changing the context of the discussion- he's bringing up a very valid point.  You say his interpretation of the puzzle is wrong, but you still have not provided an alternative.  Why?

On the two posts you mention:  This one appears to be a list of minor quibbles you're throwing at his case to undermine it.  In order:

The Black Swan's role power is dependent on their similarity.  Why is it odd that they may have hairpins of each other's color?

I think there's a pretty clear lack of colors in the Jim trio- their connection is more of protection.  In retrospect, it almost seems like they were there to protect US from JIM, instead of the other way around.

The odds of such a seven-way survival is extremely slim.  Plus, we would have a clue from either claims (which should be out there at that point, being LYLO) or NQT's flip.

Most of the rest I'd call irrelevant- if it's not here, it's irrelevant.

Jim took the Sleeping God role to a literal extreme.
I'm calling out ZU's protect here because it's extra irrelevant.  Who cares how it works?
What about Tiruin's everything?  She can't tell us anything apparently, so speculation can only get us so far.

That next-to-last large paragraph really hits at the crux of the problem with you right now- you're attacking Leaf's puzzle any way you can without providing any alternative whatsoever.


As for the other...

Well, considering that I agree with Leaf's interpretation of the puzzle (the puzzle we know exists), and said puzzle clearly marks you as the last scum, there's really not much more I can add to that.

so the only reason is that you like leaf's solution? and you are voting me for none of the reasons referenced in your vote post? and you aren't even willing to try to do any reasearch or look for an answer yourself. woo! best confirmed townie play ever!

You're strawmanning me again.  The reasons I stated support the "Lenglon is scum" idea.  This is twice you've tried to pick out one point and make it the entirety of my case- another case of scum behavior on your part.

And I've read back on the three of you trying to look for signs of scum.  What leads and ideas I've had that went nowhere I didn't post because, well, they went nowhere.  Leaf's solution (plus what I did post) wraps it up nice and neat for me.

seriously toaster, SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. if you agree with leaf, then say it yourself. I will not have anything to do with someone who pulls that kind of trick on a regular basis.

What does this even mean?  I have said multiple times that I agree with Leaf.  If you want another reason coming from me, you're turning sharply more abrasive as you get pushed into the corner.


As an aside, the Black Swan would have to fakeclaim since the scum team is- and flips as- the Black Swan's Cohort.  If Ottofar had true claimed that rolename, then he'd be instalynched as soon as any other mafioso died.

In any case, Lenglon, I don't want to hear anything more from you that isn't your version of the puzzle or a clear and concise reason why you cannot provide one.  Your stubborn avoidance of this point is further condemning you.



Tiruin:

But I've to fully agree with her point on Toaster. He's been...quite flippant with mostly everything in-game.

Bleh.  I haven't been strongly invested in playing this game- I might need a Mafia break, to be honest.  It's a good read but I've had trouble reading people in it since day one.

In which I call out Toaster//Leafsnail, specifically the former for...a very bad vote. Toaster: Did you not care to explain your gut read back then despite the everything ZU said? How can one's intuition (or in cruder terms, the gut >_<) conclude a lie from his words back in the day preceding his lynch?

If I had a reason for it, it wouldn't be a gut feeling, now would it?  I couldn't begin to give you more detail on that now since said vote was over a month ago.  Quite frankly, at least I put my money where my mouth was and voted, which is more than I can say for half the players that day- including Lenglon, no less.  But hey, her scumbuddy Web wasn't voting either- why vote when the town's already set up mislynch for you?  This way they can say they had nothing to do with it.

But yeah, my play's been poor this game- I'm having trouble getting the motivation to do the good deep digging these days.

And I already commented on no lynching:

PPE:  No Lynch won't work because Leafsnail has a negative vote.  If we had four people with normal votes, it'd be different.

[Lenglon]

Toaster:

additionally, there's a key element missing, because we still haven't figured out why certain magics are occuring here.
Why were Toaster and I turned into humans?
Why was web able to remove her shoes?
Why is Leaf unable to remove her shoes?
Why weren't we able to identify Web1 until she was bitten?
What's up with jim?
How did ZU's protect work?
Tiruin's everything?
how could the prince not recognize his own younger brother?
It doesn't make sense to me that we'd have to totally abandon all sense of immersion in the world Vector created to solve the puzzle. It should be solvable by the characters we're attempting to roleplay, not just by the meta-characters doing the roleplaying. I seriously doubt that the Prince himself rigged his invitations to create a pattern based on colors, and one that identifies specific people as threats and others as safe. I strongly think that we're missing something regarding the origins of the magics causing all this, and I strongly doubt it was all about Jim since Jim's dead and I'm not a flower again. especially so since Jim was apparently a goddess of death and yet all these changes were changes to life, something that had been occurring since before the game began yet in Jim's role PM it was mentioned that her connection to life was tenuous while she still had her attendants.
So where's the magician?

It's patently obvious that you aren't even reading what I'm posting.

[Toaster]

Most of the rest I'd call irrelevant- if it's not here, it's irrelevant.

Jim took the Sleeping God role to a literal extreme.
I'm calling out ZU's protect here because it's extra irrelevant.  Who cares how it works?
What about Tiruin's everything?  She can't tell us anything apparently, so speculation can only get us so far.

That next-to-last large paragraph really hits at the crux of the problem with you right now- you're attacking Leaf's puzzle any way you can without providing any alternative whatsoever.

[Toaster]

Oh man, totally forgot to add this:


What is the puzzle, Lenglon?

[Lenglon]

Toaster:

So where's the magician?

It's patently obvious that you aren't even reading what I'm posting.

[Tiruin]

First of all, for everyone's I, I've had two drops of alcohol in my life and that was it.  I don't drink, period.

Second of all, I don't choose my avatars for relatability.  I pick them based on what makes me happy.  In this case, what made me happy was the Hokusai wave in the wine.

I didn't mean to imply anything by that Vector. When I said that I can't relate, I meant that I don't know why people like wine because all my experiences with it resulted in deriving my reaction from the flavor--bitter. I liked the aesthetic of it and...didn't mean anything else by the lack of me saying 'I like it' despite me saying that in a past tense. Meaning: I never meant that I didn't like it..

I didn't mean anything by...relatability. It's just that I couldn't find any term back then, but I didn't mean anything untoward against you when I said such. Nor do I have anything against people drinking wine..Or that you should do x or y because of what other people think..I mean, every avatar you've had has its essence of collateral happiness and its always made everyone else happy.

...Or maybe I'm weird because of that given that I've only had wine twice my entire life. And it was all bitter from the tongue down. And then I was all talkative and many other things that relate to drinking a small glass of wine.

...Sorry if you got the wrong idea..

Well I guess there's a benefit in that it could eliminate Tiruin as a scum suspect.  Are you worried about the possibility that you're scum, Tiruin ?

Pff nah, that's why I'm pushing my luck and bringing up everything I can given how everyone sees me as innocent.

That..and there's always the chance the scum could pick me because they think that I'm not actually bulletproof and have had a +1 life. But what are the chances of that?

Lenglon:

Toaster: no, I'm saying that he's twisting my words, quotemining, and trying to repeatedly change the context of the discussion. You also appear to have ignored This post and This one, completely.

What about Tiruin's everything?  She can't tell us anything apparently, so speculation can only get us so far

I can actually tell you anything, just not my role because you won't believe me and that anyone else wouldn't believe me. I can tell my ability but withheld telling it in its exact because of the sheer...power it has.

You can ask Jim later on. No, don't think I killed him because I'm not psychic or any of that magic-y stuff.

And I already commented on no lynching:

PPE:  No Lynch won't work because Leafsnail has a negative vote.  If we had four people with normal votes, it'd be different.

Mm, that's what I thought. LS is weird that he's acting oppositely, but it has basis. The originality deserves kudos though.

I think there's a pretty clear lack of colors in the Jim trio- their connection is more of protection.  In retrospect, it almost seems like they were there to protect US from JIM, instead of the other way around.

Err, didn't anyone get that before?
Fakeedit: Didn't see that in my previous post :x
Anyway, I'm guessing the acolytes, given their context were sent to aid and protect Jin, who seems to be a vessel instead of an actor. Given that she's been somewhat like a prophet, without the innocence of her followers, she was affected by that which I guess, pervades this place. (Yes I'm being wholly speculative).

That this place is cursed by Mother Death, as from what I've heard.

...I really think me and Griffy are only a puzzle to ourselves. I've no connection to anything given my flavor (other than what you saw) and given from what I know of the younger prince, Sigfred didn't like talking about him much-he preferred his older bro.

Everyone: Day ends soon. Verdict?
Lenglon: Last words? It seems unanimous in this case, now.


PPE: Those 3 PPEs.

Huh, right. I think you missed this, Toaster:

Toaster: If people haven't proven you town in the situation beforehand, then you would've, and still should've been my prime suspect..mostly due to playstyle.

Lenglon:

Toaster:Be your own spokesman, I can't put up with the fool you have doing your thinking for you.

The key point is that I agree with Leaf's interpretation of the puzzle, and that said interpretation of the puzzle points directly at you being scum.  Now your responses to Leaf consist mainly of "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."  That only leads me to one question:

If Leaf's puzzle proposal is incorrect, what is the puzzle here?

Why propose her to give her own response to the puzzle? Would a more significant explanation persuade you? Do you sincerely agree in full to Leaf's without any implications?