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[Tiruin]

Tiruin:how important is the RVS phase and why?

"You could use quotes, dear. To not do so would muchly be ghastly for skimming readers.

"However, it is very important! Imperative, even, to the start of any formal talk (Mafia game). Whether you mean the notion or just the label, its function is to start off anything leading on communication. Why? Communication! It explains itself that when people talk to each other, things happen. Information flows, and the vote contains enough of a psychological mark that it's effect is too relative to detail.

"Create an idea, and you'll have something to talk about. Why are you asking me this by the way?"

[notquitethere]

Princess Jen Groovester

Princess notquitethere, what mafia lessons have you learned over the course of the games you've played?

I'm still not quite sure. I understand all the received wisdom but I'm still making my mind up about the finer points. I've realised a few things that others may or may not agree with. Scum very often win by keeping their head down. Especially in dire straits, never underestimate the power of a well phrased claim. A vigorous, logical appraisal of the voting patterns might find you the scum but don't expect anyone else to believe you. I only can suppose that you've come away with much different lessons. I really am more than happy to argue the wisdom in my wisdom in the likelihood that you disagree.

Princess Cado

NQT: What would be your preferred third party role, and do you believe there will be an abundance of them similar to Toon Mafia 7, or a couple scattered through the group?

My prefered 3rd party role would be jester or martyr as I always lose so it might be nice to win in losing for once. We have no way of telling how abundant 3rd party roles are until the game properly gets underway. It's nice to get the ball rolling with conversation, but do you think my answer has brought you any closer to discovering the wicked princesses?

Princess Tiruin
I think we have played over ten games together now. Do you think you have a good meta-read on me now?

Princess Griffionday
I'll be blunt: what is your aim in this game?

[Tiruin]

Princess Tiruin
I think we have played over ten games together now. Do you think you have a good meta-read on me now?

Tiruin folds her fan and stashes it away at your words.

"I can say yes. I can say no. Man is ever changing, as I see from experience, but leave enough marks to denote their uniqueness. So too is your relativity of having a good enough read. Now? No. Later? Maybe. It all depends.

"But if you want a definite answer, I say no. Because you're quite the shifty fellow, Miss NacQuither. I hear you're quite adept in the field of logic, so there's where my guesses lie. Man is ever changing..much like the huge world around him.

"Why as me, of all people? And why the concept of meta? How does that relate?"

Princess Cado

NQT: What would be your preferred third party role, and do you believe there will be an abundance of them similar to Toon Mafia 7, or a couple scattered through the group?

My prefered 3rd party role would be jester or martyr as I always lose so it might be nice to win in losing for once[...]

So you base it on previous experiences? Why do you think you always lose?

[notquitethere]

Princess

"But if you want a definite answer, I say no. Because you're quite the shifty fellow, Miss NacQuither. I hear you're quite adept in the field of logic, so there's where my guesses lie. Man is ever changing..much like the huge world around him.

"Why as me, of all people? And why the concept of meta? How does that relate?"

I ask you because I've played with you the most. I do always try to be logical, so although it doesn't pay to put too much stock in preconceptions, if you see me acting illogically you will have grounds for suspicion. I ask you about meta because it might be something that could come up later.

So you base it on previous experiences? Why do you think you always lose?

Why do you make everything a question? (That was rhetorical.) Of course I base my role preferences on my previous experiences. I have lost for many reasons. Sometimes it has been because of obvious mistakes, mistakes that I have learned from and that have made me a stronger player. Other times, facts of the setting and my role have made a win for me very unlikely, yet more times I've been let down the poor play of other players who have not played to the fullest of their wincons (such as Deathsword in Toon mafia, or the irrational play of the rebels in the first Revolution).

Princess Lenglon
Are you going to try anything different in your approach to this game?

[webadict]

Wuba: Who would you most like to have as a confirmed townie and why?

Leafsnail. He tends to escape sight of everyone as scum. Doesn't matter how much effort you put into killing his whole team. Plus, he can deal with that.

I would hug you if this thing wasn't taken out of context.

So *hugs*.

Glad you're doing better.

Better than I was. I could bore everyone about everything, but that's a discussion for elsewhere. All that matters is that I'm doing better.

Sooo...

I guess Toaster will do. He's far too innocent to be town.

[Ottofar]

"Hello, Tiruin, dearest. Might I inquire, what do you call the shade of color on the dress you wear? It's lovely."

Rangercado, "What makes an upstart like yourself think she's worthy of our prince?

[Toaster]

Solifuge:

Solifuge:  Can we expect your RP to course throughout a whole day then die off by day two?

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. :3

It's a reference to Toon Mafia, really.  If it's gone by this post, then I suppose that answers the question in and of itself!

Solifuge: If you had an inspect, would you inspect someone scummy, someone townie, or someone you don't have a read on?

Actually, I wouldn't do any of those, and would instead spend my efforts getting to know the people I perceived as the most potentially dangerous; the individuals with reputations for the most experience and skill. That would either let me know that their observations were to be trusted, or would let me stop them before their plans went into motion.

So what qualifies a person to be dangerous?


Ranger:

Toaster: [/b]What would be your preferred town Power in this game? How about Mafia as well?

Town... it's been a while since I've rolled cop.  That'd be a nice one to have for a change.  As scum, I favor the confusion-sowing powers- redirects and the like.

Would you rather have a confirmed townie or confirmed scum to deal with?  Also, why ask about cults?


Jim:

Also, would you treat newbies equally as veterans in regard to committing tells?

If they committed the same kinds of tells, then yes.

But veterans and newbies don't commit the same kinds of tells, do they? No, veterans have carefully constructed appearances and new players don't know better than to make rookie mistakes. They are different kinds of eggs to crack.

What kind of tells would you be looking for from each group?  What criteria would you use to separate honest mistakes from genuine scumtells?


NQT:

Princess Jen Groovester

Princess notquitethere, what mafia lessons have you learned over the course of the games you've played?

I'm still not quite sure. I understand all the received wisdom but I'm still making my mind up about the finer points. I've realised a few things that others may or may not agree with. Scum very often win by keeping their head down. Especially in dire straits, never underestimate the power of a well phrased claim. A vigorous, logical appraisal of the voting patterns might find you the scum but don't expect anyone else to believe you. I only can suppose that you've come away with much different lessons. I really am more than happy to argue the wisdom in my wisdom in the likelihood that you disagree.

Do you still see value personally in doing vote analysis if no one else seems to care?

[RangerCado]

Ranger: Cult is unlikely but possible. it wouldn't mesh with the story well, and it's rare anyway.
Ranger: If you don't trust your ability to identify scum, how do you plan to scumhunt?

Lenglon: I don't trust myself with a Vig-kill because of how reactive I can be, which would result in a probable misfire with the death of a Townie. Not to mention that if anyone was watching my actions at the time, it may lead to a wasted lynch on me the next day. Speculation, but I don't trust myself with NKs against the Mafia. I plan to scum hunt as one normally would, ask questions and judge reactions, See whos playing defencesively and whos jumping on wild accusations, and don't fully trust anyone unless you know 100% you can.

Why do you seem to think I would not try scumhunt normally? Or at all if I understand the meaning of your question?

Tiruin: You are a cop with a confirmed Townie who trusts you but the rest of the town is getting ready to lynch them. Do you claim to try to save them, or use persuassion only to help with this. Lets say its day 3 and you were blocked night 2.

"C-cop? Oh, so did I confirm the townie? How did that townie get confirmed?

"...Trusts me in what way? If you mean I confirmed him on N1, then I'd let the lynch go, but then check on what everyone else was doing to the soul and analyze from then on."

Tiruin tilts her head to the side, pondering. "This is strange, Lady Cado, like you wish to know detailed specifics. What are you trying to find out here?"

Leafsnail: Everytime I claim early, I get lynched. So no, I will not claim day 1 no matter my role or alignment because I will get killed for WIFOM... and no one start bugging me about that please, I get it, It was stupid. Who do you believe would be the three deadliest Mafia members together and why?

"Can you give your own analysis on what early claims did, on the first day, in that context of getting lynched to us? What have you learned? Why is it WIFOM? Why 'three deadliest'?"

You inspected them Night 1 yes, and they trust you due to how you've played and acted. The details are more due to people asking for more details when I've asked the question in a more general form. (You are a cop and confirmed a townie Night 1. The town suspects them and is leading a lynch against them. Do you try to save him and in what way?)

What I am trying to do is judge your answers to these questions, and If I find something fishy, I will pursue it to the best of my ability to see if my suspicions turn up anything. If they do, i'll dig deeper. If they don't, i'll keep an eye out for other things that pop out as strange as I switch over to others.

I claimed cop day 1 in a BM. I had three votes on me and knew I was about to have a lynch case built on me from the way I was being questioned. I hoped to try and send everyone else against someone who I felt was acting scummy. As the discussion went, most thought I was lying, then saw that if the "real cop" just claimed right then, one less scum to deal with. So a few believed me. Then, slowly the votes came back against me for creating a plethora of WIFOM due to forcing the Jailer to have to protect me, so I was lynched. I have had another Bad claim experience as Third-party in Toon Mafia 7, and from those, I'd rather not claim until absolutely necissary. ie: during mass claim time, or when It could reliably shift the votes correctly. I have learned to not jump to conclusions about claiming, and think more about it... though I was correct about a  lynch case coming at me in the BM

I picked three deadliest because I wish to see who leafsnail believes would be the three players he would find most dangerous as a mafia team. I also think three is a good starting point for how many mafia members we may be trying to find.

You always seem to leave me with a lot to answer Tiruin, so lets see If I can do the same. If you were the doctor, how would you pick your target during the night? How about as a tracker? And the Mafia Rolecop as well? And who do you believe is the strongest player as town in this game?

Lenglon: I would prefer a protect over a vig-kill due to how terrible my luck is, and the guilt that would seep into my posts if I used it and killed a townie.

Why would you feel guilty for killing a town?

Do you feel similarly guilty when you mislynch somebody?

I would feel guilty for it due to harming the town with my action, and by extension, helping the Mafia team. I do as well when I mislynch someone, though not as much due to them making the mistakes that lead to their lynch, as well as the support of several players in this leading to their lynch.

Princess Cado

NQT: What would be your preferred third party role, and do you believe there will be an abundance of them similar to Toon Mafia 7, or a couple scattered through the group?

My prefered 3rd party role would be jester or martyr as I always lose so it might be nice to win in losing for once. We have no way of telling how abundant 3rd party roles are until the game properly gets underway. It's nice to get the ball rolling with conversation, but do you think my answer has brought you any closer to discovering the wicked princesses?

NQT: An unusual question can show a slip up early on if someone answers it without thought. It was partially to start the conversation going, but an early slip is always useful in the RVS stage. Your answer shows the norm I would expect... minus some kind of put down towards me for a strange question, so I will continue to question you on more conventional things.

Who would you prefer to have on your scum team? What would be your preferred scum team to go against as town?

Rangercado, "What makes an upstart like yourself think she's worthy of our prince?

Ottofar: I've learned from my mistakes slowly, and better to learn than to think you know everything. But what makes you believe that I would be worse than anyone else? What have you seen previously that makes you think I can't, or haven't learned?

Ranger:

Toaster: [/b]What would be your preferred town Power in this game? How about Mafia as well?

Town... it's been a while since I've rolled cop.  That'd be a nice one to have for a change.  As scum, I favor the confusion-sowing powers- redirects and the like.

Would you rather have a confirmed townie or confirmed scum to deal with? Also, why ask about cults?

Toaster: I would rather have a confirmed Townie, for the simple reason that I have someone whos opinion I can see is not filled with ill intent and is honest. Knowing my allies seems a better plan to me unless i'm at deaths door, then a confirmed scum player would be more useful as a parting word.

I asked about cults to get a conversation going and to judge reactions to an unorthodox question this early in the game. Finding a strange answer to that question was unlikely, but better to try and see where it gets you than not.

[notquitethere]

Princess Toaster

Do you still see value personally in doing vote analysis if no one else seems to care?

Yes, it's a useful tool for me, especially in getting a feel for teams. It becomes more useful the longer a game goes on. I've personally found the alignment of at least six players in three different games this way. So I'll keep doing it but I'll try to look for more supporting reasons if I'm trying to convince others to lynch scum that I've found using my methods.

Princess Cado

Your answer shows the norm I would expect... minus some kind of put down towards me for a strange question, so I will continue to question you on more conventional things.

Who would you prefer to have on your scum team? What would be your preferred scum team to go against as town?

Oh I meant no put down Princess, I like unusual questions. Only, I make no secret of the fact that I think this stage is mostly useful for starting conversation and of limited scumhunting use. I could be persuaded otherwise if someone showed me evidence.

I'd want Princess Tiruin on my scumteam because people have a hard time reading her. And also she's quite amicable, which is helpful in someone you're making evil plans with. And probably Princess Leafsnail as they're a competent liar.

I reckon I could take down a Princesses griffinpup-Lenglon-Ottofar team, if only because I don't think they'd be good at making convincing cases on townfolk as the days proceed. That's just a feeling though (and one I wouldn't like to see proved wrong).

This kind of question actually might have a use: if a scum player flips, you might gleam something from their opinions on other players, but only if they're particular dim or incautious.

Princess Wuba
Does emotive language have a place in good scumhunting?

[Solifuge]

Lenglon goes and gets a glass of water for Solifuge, and offers it to her.
Solifuge: you dropped your RP almost completely when you answered that. why?

Thank you... but I still have no idea what you mean.

Solifuge: you had no follow-up to the questions you asked me, why? what did you learn from them?

Oh, don't be so -nervous-, m'lady. We're just getting to know one another.
*At this, Lady Solifuge takes a sip from the offered glass, before leaning in closer with a small smile.*

When you should be nervous, I'll let you know.

Solifuge: If you had an inspect, would you inspect someone scummy, someone townie, or someone you don't have a read on?

Actually, I wouldn't do any of those, and would instead spend my efforts getting to know the people I perceived as the most potentially dangerous; the individuals with reputations for the most experience and skill. That would either let me know that their observations were to be trusted, or would let me stop them before their plans went into motion.

So what qualifies a person to be dangerous?

the individuals with reputations for the most experience and skill.

I completely understand if you couldn't make out what I was saying. After all, I was speaking with Lady Lenglon.

"Soli!"
Tiruin hugs you before asking you something.

"How have you been? Last time we've met, you weren't quite talkative for days--why was that? Did you not want to talk during that time (yes I'm talking about your most recent Mafia game: Toon Mafia) or did something else happen to you then?

"Oh, also, I noticed you were intently listening to Shepard's story. Do you think our background stories also have the same weight? As in, importance to the Prince? What's your take on lurkers?"

Oh Tiruin, it is good to see you again! I'm afraid I was rather busy during our last engagement.

I tend to find that those who are overly shy or furtive tend to have an agenda behind their "lurking", or are just not invested in the goings-on. Either way, they should be investigated the same as anyone else. Perhaps harder than others.

As for our individual histories, I...
*Solifuge lowers her voice to a whisper*

I suspect the Prince knew more about who he was gathering here than he let on. Understanding more about our histories may be important to uncovering more about this situation, but the whole thing smells of secrecy. Like there's a layer to this that we're missing. Perhaps this is all just a test of our commitment to virtue; to those things we value most. I- well, I have been given reason to think on that, as of late.

[webadict]

Princess Wuba
Does emotive language have a place in good scumhunting?

Can I get a definition or an example?

[notquitethere]

Sure, "Language designed to express and/or evoke a strong emotional response" is probably a good working definition. Examples might include expressing rage or deliberately pushing people's buttons. Or being openly exasperated or trying to make others feel sorry for you.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail: Everytime I claim early, I get lynched. So no, I will not claim day 1 no matter my role or alignment because I will get killed for WIFOM... and no one start bugging me about that please, I get it, It was stupid. Who do you believe would be the three deadliest Mafia members together and why?

That's a fair position to take (millers are a bit different to cops though)

"Hello, Tiruin, dearest. Might I inquire, what do you call the shade of color on the dress you wear? It's lovely."

Rangercado, "What makes an upstart like yourself think she's worthy of our prince?

Neither of these questions seem very helpful.  What were you trying to achieve?

[webadict]

Sure, "Language designed to express and/or evoke a strong emotional response" is probably a good working definition. Examples might include expressing rage or deliberately pushing people's buttons. Or being openly exasperated or trying to make others feel sorry for you.

Well, sure, that'll work fine, but it could be unethical.

Is this supposed to be related to anything that actually happened or...?

Overall, I guess you probably shouldn't do it if you can help it.

[Jim Groovester]

Vector, how many scum are there? I don't think it was ever stated.

Toaster, what's your interest in Solifuge RPing or not?

What kind of tells would you be looking for from each group?  What criteria would you use to separate honest mistakes from genuine scumtells?

There's a set of classic scumtells that new players regularly make that I've learned to identify. Things like lacking commitment in their vote, not calling the people they vote scum, and others that I fail to recall at this specific moment. That's what I look for in new players.

As for the veterans, that's harder. I'm deciding to let my gut guide me, and to listen to it closely. If I feel that things don't add up for one reason or another, I'll be sure to press people over it. There was the smell test I used to do a few years ago. I'll be bringing that back, without necessarily emoting that that's what's happening.

As for honest mistakes or scumtells, the criteria is how much I like and believe their explanation.

Princess Jen Groovester

Princess notquitethere, what mafia lessons have you learned over the course of the games you've played?

I'm still not quite sure. I understand all the received wisdom but I'm still making my mind up about the finer points. I've realised a few things that others may or may not agree with. Scum very often win by keeping their head down. Especially in dire straits, never underestimate the power of a well phrased claim. A vigorous, logical appraisal of the voting patterns might find you the scum but don't expect anyone else to believe you. I only can suppose that you've come away with much different lessons. I really am more than happy to argue the wisdom in my wisdom in the likelihood that you disagree.

How certain are you that the lessons you're learning are the right ones?

I would feel guilty for it due to harming the town with my action, and by extension, helping the Mafia team. I do as well when I mislynch someone, though not as much due to them making the mistakes that lead to their lynch, as well as the support of several players in this leading to their lynch.

Do you feel the same guilt from mislynching and killing town when you're scum?

I tend to find that those who are overly shy or furtive tend to have an agenda behind their "lurking", or are just not invested in the goings-on. Either way, they should be investigated the same as anyone else. Perhaps harder than others.

I'll keep this in mind when you disappear on Day 2.