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[doctoxic]

I have just had a Forgotten beast spawn in an underground cave - luckily not connected to my tunnels.  This raised the following question...

If i tunnel into the caves, clear them of all creatures and make sure all exits are blocked do creatures still spawn there or is it now a "safe" area?

thanks

[Matoro]

If they can't spawn there (caverns are walled completely), they won't. So it's perfectly safe.

[Philotes]

Dont forget that creatures can destroy walls.

[Garath]

Dont forget that creatures can't destroy walls.

fixed that for you

[doctoxic]

thanks all

off to wall off my first cavern area

[Sutremaine]

If you use a single layer of walls, creatures can spawn on the floor comprising the top of the wall. Use fortifications instead.

Creatures will also not spawn on top of other standing creatures. I recently got an announcement about an FB, but when I zoomed to the tile I found my weaponsmith standing there instead.

[doctoxic]

If you use a single layer of walls, creatures can spawn on the floor comprising the top of the wall. Use fortifications instead.

Creatures will also not spawn on top of other standing creatures. I recently got an announcement about an FB, but when I zoomed to the tile I found my weaponsmith standing there instead.

thanks - very useful info, would never have figured that until it happened and even then i don't think i would have realised quite how it had spawned

my takeover of the caves is on hold as there's some fire breathing monstrosity a couple of levels up that can walk down to fry me - very annoying - this raises a whole bunch of new questions........

i assume these FBs don't ever de-spawn - or move to another cave system

can the FB breath at me through the fort holes

i assume they move randomly but are there certain conditions (noise, nearness etc) where the FB will aggro you?

can FB breakdown ordinary doors?

can i catch it in a cage trap which i have placed where i am about to dig through?  if not how do you suggest i deal with it (bearing in mind i don't want to use my rather poor military on it as i think they might all die # (this is a learning playthrough for me so i don't want to have fun (lose) quite yet

# ok, i confess i have reloaded  
i forgot to check the cave and the next thing i knew there was smoke and dead miners over rather a large area - total carnage

[Garath]

yes, a FB can destroy doors, use raising bridges instead. Some can also fly. They will head for any fort opening even if they can't see it at the time, though it may take some time before they head there. No, you can not catch it in a cage trap, or kill it with a weapon trap, nor do they trigger pressure plates afaik. FB and titans are trapavoid.

How to kill one;
if it has a gas or liquid bidy, one hit in the body or head will destroy it. Use marksdwarfs. That is a good idea in any case, to use marksdwarfs to soften them up. Another good option is a corridor with upright spike traps linked to a lever. Trapavoid doesn't apply to upright spikes. Inorganic, stone FB are mostly immune to the piercing attacks from bolts and spikes. They'll get hurt, but won't be killed. They need to be hacked apart. Atom smashin, an all-time favorite, won't work. Trying to lower a bridge onto a FB head will destroy the bridge, unless it's just the head. Dead FB can be smashed just fine. Cave ins work fine. Drop a floor on a FB from a small height is an instant kill, as is encasing them in obsidian

[Sutremaine]

To elaborate: flying FBs that have an air path but not a ground path will fly around aimlessly until they stumble upon the gap. Then they'll get a ground path to the rest of your fortress, and will actively path to creatures or buildings.

[doctoxic]

Cave ins work fine. Drop a floor on a FB from a small height is an instant kill, as is encasing them in obsidian

this seems like a good plan
BUT
just had a quick read of the wikki - and couldn't see that it explains in a clear enough way (for me) HOW to cause a cave in - likewise the CatainDuck video doesn't cover it in enough detail for me either (it seems to come in near the end of the process)

would be grateful for a "for dummies" explanation of what i need to dig, or is it channel?  I just can't visualise what i need to do.

[Sutremaine]

A tile is supported if it's connected to a tile that's supported. The tiles have to be connected by an edge or face -- a corner isn't enough. A tile on one z-level can support a tile on another.

When you're trying to trigger a cave in, what you're doing is stripping away the support of a tile (or group of tiles) until there's one tile left supporting it. This tile can be a wall, floor, or support, with supports being preferred because they can be removed remotely.

Edit: stairs and ramps also count as supports. Ramps function as floors, down stairs function as floors, and up/down or up stairs function as walls. Constructed fortifications definitely count as floors, though I'm not sure if they count as walls as well.

[doctoxic]

what you're doing is stripping away the support of a tile (or group of tiles) until there's one tile left supporting it.

the depth of my ignorance knows no bounds

its the basic mechanics i don't get

how exactly do i "strip away support"?  i have already got rooms below other rooms and nothing collapses

lets say the level i want to drop is Z0 and is 4x4 and nothing else has been dug out on that level

so i mine on Z-1, i.e directly below, (not channel?) a 4x4 room directly below it with tunnels leading in and out

then lets say i put a "support" up in one of the 4x4 squares below the roof i want to drop and connect it up to a level

assuming the above is correct (unlikely i know) - what do i then have to mine or channel or what so that when i pull the lever the roof falls

thanks for your patience

[laularukyrumo]

Deconstructing constructions, or channeling, are usually what you'll end up doing.

As mentioned, tiles can support each other across z-levels. So if you have a big chunk of dirt that you've dug a room out of, like in figure A below, it won't collapse. If you channel a ring, with no gaps, as in figure B, it still won't collapse, because the tiles below it are still connecting it to something else somewhere. If you intend to drop a 'solid', unmined tile down on him, you'll also need to channel a ring around the z-level above.

You should also build a 'support' building beneath whatever it is you're going to dump on the unlucky sucker. It will provide support to the tiles above it, but you can link it to a lever via mechanisms. When you pull the lever, the support deconstructs instantly.... and if you've set everything up right, bring the whole structure collapsing down. If it doesn't drop, lure the FB away from your construction area, go rebuild the support, and fix it.

[Sutremaine]

how exactly do i "strip away support"?  i have already got rooms below other rooms and nothing collapses

Deconstruct constructions, or mine natural terrain. Your rooms aren't collapsing because the floor tile in the middle is connected to the floor tile next to it, which is connected to the wall, which is connected to the rest of the map, which is effectively connected to the edge (you can't remove the tiles touching the embark bounday).

lets say the level i want to drop is Z0 and is 4x4 and nothing else has been dug out on that level

so i mine on Z-1, i.e directly below, (not channel?) a 4x4 room directly below it with tunnels leading in and out

then lets say i put a "support" up in one of the 4x4 squares below the roof i want to drop and connect it up to a level

assuming the above is correct (unlikely i know) - what do i then have to mine or channel or what so that when i pull the lever the roof falls

It's a start -- you have the support in place, so you're not going to have it collapse as soon as the miner is finished and still standing right there.

If I'm reading what you've done correctly, you've now got two 4x4 rooms directly above each other. The topmost room is being held in place by its connection to the walls, so you need to get rid of that connection.

Dig down stairs around the edge of the topmost 4x4 room, so that you have a room that's 5x5 with stairs all around the edge. Dig matching up stairs around the edge of the 4x4 room below, so that you have another 5x5 room.

Channel out any down stairs that don't have a matching up stair above them, while you still have access to the top floor. Once that's done and the miners are off the top floor, set the down stairs to be channelled. The miners will do this by standing on the up stairs beneath, meaning they won't get trapped on the platform that used to be a 5x5 room.

Then remove the up stairs, which should make the 4x4 floor area's only support the support you built yourself. Link it to a lever (if you haven't done so already), pull the lever, and the 4x4 floor should fall until it encounters a level with a wall beneath. Each tile of a cave in is treated separately -- if you have half of a level as floor and half as wall, the cave in will stop above the wall and continue above the floor.

[doctoxic]

thanks

off to try that in practice

will report back