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[stonetongue]

I've read through as many threads as I could find about whip damage versus mace or war hammer damage. It seems like the consensus is -

damage = (size) * (velocity) / (contact area)

So for a mace that's 800 * 2 / 20 = 80. For a war hammer it's 400 * 2 / 10 = 80. But for a whip it's 100 * 5 / 1 = 500.

So even if you had a silver artifact war hammer (damage modifier 3x), you should still choose the foreign, basic quality, silver whip, right?

[MattStriker]

Yeah. Whips are crazy good due to how blunt damage calc works. They break the combat system in a pretty spectacular way. Try it out in adventure mode sometime...make a whip adventurer and see what happens to the poor bastards you go up against.

[TheDarkStar]

Whips are THE best melee weapon. There's a reason people call them lightsabers. Sadly, you can't create them normally, and an artifact one requires a dwarf who likes them.

[itg]

There's a very big caveat there, and that's that they're only good against enemies who feel pain. Whips will chip bones every time they hit, regardless of armor, which is enough to make a goblin pass out, but an FB won't care in the slightest. You can't even count on the headshot if it's an inorganic FB.

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

There's a very big caveat there, and that's that they're only good against enemies who feel pain.

This is basically true of all blunt weapons.

[Snaake]

There's a very big caveat there, and that's that they're only good against enemies who feel pain.

This is basically true of all blunt weapons.

Plus, you know, warhammers are preferred against zombies and undead, afaik. They don't feel pain, do they?

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

Plus, you know, warhammers are preferred against zombies and undead, afaik. They don't feel pain, do they?

No zombies don't feel pain. Are warhammers the preferred weapon against zombies? I thought all weapons were basically equal against them.

The one situation where blunt weapons are absolutely preferred is when you are in an reanimating evil biome or there's a necromancer nearby. In that situation, edged weapons just produce more enemies, since every limb they sever is raised as a new zombie to fight!

[Drazinononda]

Plus, you know, warhammers are preferred against zombies and undead, afaik. They don't feel pain, do they?

No zombies don't feel pain. Are warhammers the preferred weapon against zombies? I thought all weapons were basically equal against them.

The one situation where blunt weapons are absolutely preferred is when you are in an reanimating evil biome or there's a necromancer nearby. In that situation, edged weapons just produce more enemies, since every limb they sever is raised as a new zombie to fight!

That's actually why warhammers (and maces) are preferred, I think. Whether due to biome or due to necromancers, more limbs = more potential zombies. And besides that: where else do zombies come from?

But otherwise, like you said, all weapons are basically equal due to the zombies still being on a placeholder HP system rather than the blood-breathing-and-brains considerations of most living things. There's nothing to sever off of a zombie head, so a few whacks with a hammer and a few slashes with a sword are (currently) pretty equivalent.

[itg]

There's a very big caveat there, and that's that they're only good against enemies who feel pain.

This is basically true of all blunt weapons.

True, but it's the main reason I would argue axes are better overall than whips.

There's a very big caveat there, and that's that they're only good against enemies who feel pain.

This is basically true of all blunt weapons.

Plus, you know, warhammers are preferred against zombies and undead, afaik. They don't feel pain, do they?

Zombies are an exception because they have HP instead of a tissue-based health system, unlike every other type of creature. Basically this means blunt weapons will kill just as well as edged weapons without relying on pain or headshots, and the blunt weapons don't sever limbs which you might have to kill again later.

[MattStriker]

And besides that: where else do zombies come from?

Haven't actually found one yet myself, but I believe Curious Underground Structures are supposed to contain undead. That's pretty much the only source of undead that isn't self-replenishing in some way.

[Urist Da Vinci]

Animated corpse "collapse" triggering weapons in decreasing order of power:

Crossbows (1 hit if metal bolts, 5-6 hits if wood bolts)
Whips (1-2 hits)
Hammers/Maces (3-4 hits)
Battle Axes/Short Swords (5-7 hits)
Spears/Punching (8-10 hits)

Melee weapons take fewer hits if the user is strong and skilled in the weapon. Numbers above are quoted for testing with unskilled dwarfs. The weapons with higher velocity modifiers are better, for poorly understood reasons relating to momentum. Crossbows are better because even a grazing hit from an unskilled dwarf will put down the animated corpse, so no training is required.

[Sutremaine]

an artifact [whip] requires a dwarf who likes them.

Thinking about it, I've never seen a dwarf with a preference for whips, halberds, two-handed swords, or any other foreign melee weapon, nor has any dwarf without a weapon preference made an artifact foreign melee weapon. I'm not sure about the ranged weapons -- I've had dwarves make artifact blowguns, but I don't recall if the dwarf had a preference for them.

[Thuellai]

an artifact [whip] requires a dwarf who likes them.

Thinking about it, I've never seen a dwarf with a preference for whips, halberds, two-handed swords, or any other foreign melee weapon, nor has any dwarf without a weapon preference made an artifact foreign melee weapon. I'm not sure about the ranged weapons -- I've had dwarves make artifact blowguns, but I don't recall if the dwarf had a preference for them.

Let me look into that...  I have two bowyers who made artifacts in my current fort, and one of them made a bow.  Let me investigate whether he has a preference for bows, and that should indicate whether foreign weapon prefs can exist and will influence the production of artifacts.

[laularukyrumo]

Bowyers are different though. Wiki has notes on it.

[Sutremaine]

Interesting. I wonder why bowyers don't have the restriction on foreign weapons?