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Author Topic: the ole engines seige  (Read 1276 times)

skezixx

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the ole engines seige
« on: July 01, 2013, 03:35:08 pm »

I never seem to get around setting these up for some reason  so could any if you post some screens of efficient setups you guys use
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We must raise money. DF needed a legal defense fund eventually anyway. Concerned parents will find us eventually.

wierd

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 03:51:47 pm »

I have the same problem, and never make use of them.

From what I understand, catapults are simply useless without using memory hacks to make them target sanely, and ballistae are preferred, but fire only in cardinal directions.

Personally, I prefer elaborate trap logic, levers of doom, and the like.  What I would find epic, would be a reloadable crossbow trap that shoots bolts, since that would have splash damage, but toady hasn't given such a treasure to us. :(

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Geldrin

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 04:09:10 pm »

Is it possible to make actual catapults using drawbridges and stones? Or the projectiles will scatter around in all direction in the air?
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VerdantSF

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 04:16:17 pm »

Here's my ballista-battery combined with a marksdwarf shooting gallery.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The group of ballistae below the active battery are for training.  Due to the channel, all bolts are safely retrieved.  Just set them on repeat and let the siege engineers train their way to legendary without running out of supplies :D.  However, for pure combat effectiveness, they're really not as impressive as I had hoped.  Legendary soldiers mine goblinite in a fraction of the time.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 04:21:27 pm by VerdantSF »
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Di

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2013, 04:57:55 pm »

Shotguns kinda obsolete balistae.
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wierd

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2013, 05:19:11 pm »

Minecart shotgun is more elaborate and less noob friendly. (I hate that word, btw).

It is really a clever misuse of minecarts and often relies on dodgy physics, like the impulse ramp, to function effectively. The barrier to entry on getting it set up properly is considerably greater than "build siege workshop"->"build ballista parts"->place ballista-> make enormous ballista bolts->fire ballista.

I agree though. Putting a lot of small but dense objects inside a minecart, then controlling its near-derailment so that it expells its contents on a parabolic arc of doom deals much more damage than does a ballista or a catapult, and you can load it with much more creative ammunition. (Like caged whales.)

The trouble here was that the OP has little experience with siege engines, of which minecart cannons, squirt guns, ad shotguns are on the "advanced" side of the spectrum.


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kingubu

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2013, 05:34:43 pm »

I never seem to get around setting these up for some reason  so could any if you post some screens of efficient setups you guys use
Siege engines and "efficient" don't really go together in the same sentence.
I once spend a several in-game years in different forts working on it.  It's actually pretty easy to get masterwork/legendary everything.  And this was before minecarts, you could use them to speed ammo retrieval now.

Two important points of the design:
Siege operators are civilians.  So you have to keep them ~20 squares away from the action or they'll run from their posts.
Siege ammo is destroyed on firing unless it falls down a z level before stopping.  So end your firing range with a channel and a wall behind it.

I guess I could mention that friendly fire is always on, and that you can shoot through fortifications.  But either way I wouldn't base your defense around them.  They're just fun toys, so go for it.
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Oaktree

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2013, 06:45:41 pm »

I have the same problem, and never make use of them.

From what I understand, catapults are simply useless without using memory hacks to make them target sanely, and ballistae are preferred, but fire only in cardinal directions.

Personally, I prefer elaborate trap logic, levers of doom, and the like.  What I would find epic, would be a reloadable crossbow trap that shoots bolts, since that would have splash damage, but toady hasn't given such a treasure to us. :(

You mean a ballista trap?  You can put crossbows into the current weapon traps, and mechanics will go out and reload them if they run out of bolts.  But I think they only target and hit creatures stepping on the tile with the weapon trap.
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Snaake

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 10:32:21 am »

Minecart shotgun is more elaborate and less noob friendly. (I hate that word, btw).

It is really a clever misuse of minecarts and often relies on dodgy physics, like the impulse ramp, to function effectively. The barrier to entry on getting it set up properly is considerably greater than "build siege workshop"->"build ballista parts"->place ballista-> make enormous ballista bolts->fire ballista.
...

I'd just like to point out that minecart shotguns don't actually rely on impulse ramps: you could (and before impulse ramps were "discovered", people did) use several downwards ramps in a row, or rollers, but those require several z-levels and power respectively. The impulse ramps are the only dodgy physics involved, the scattering of the contents is intended behaviour... although maybe you shouldn't be able to fit quite so many large serrated disks in a cart, but the same applies to weapon traps.

Impulse ramps just make the shotguns easier and more compact to build. It's possible that they're practically a necessity for the latest and greatest development of minecart shotgun technology: the minecart water autocannon.

You mean a ballista trap?  You can put crossbows into the current weapon traps, and mechanics will go out and reload them if they run out of bolts.  But I think they only target and hit creatures stepping on the tile with the weapon trap.

A crossbow weapon trap that triggered from eg. a pressure plate further away would be great. The current same-tile-only version is kind of meh.
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Gargomaxthalus

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Re: the ole engines seige
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 11:11:03 am »

Lignite and burning artifacts are particurally fun ammo. The gift that keeps on giving, hope you don't like tress.
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OOOOHHHH,JUST SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AND MAYBE I'LL GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!

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