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Author Topic: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady  (Read 1115 times)

Urist MacNoob

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Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« on: June 30, 2013, 05:02:43 pm »

Alright, we've all had this happen once or twice or thrice if we're particularly unlucky. I think.

Adventurer has a party of about ten experienced soldiers travelling through the wilderness and camps for the night.

Bandits spawn in a perfect square around the adventurer and cripple him completely before he can even do anything and then proceed to kill him.

Not fair. You see, those ten soldiers are supposed to keep watch, and if they do the enemy wouldn't just appear on me in a square. They'd probably be a little ways away and advancing so I'd have time to at least get up and go into a martial trance. Maybe even get to fight a little before someone punches me in the head through my iron helmet. With animals I'm a bit more lenient in my opinion, particularly with big cats. A giant lioness is going to be experienced in hunting unaware prey. Bandits, however, are just society's rejects with weapons preying upon the unarmed and unprepared. They're not superninjas that can scale walls and read minds and teleport. In other words, bandits are not Urist Attano, nor should they have his power.

If I had no companions it'd make more sense that bandits could sneak up like that, but I wasn't alone. Had ten people with me, none of them got to do anything before I was insta-dead.

I propose making bandits and if you're lucky(and maybe have a large party) wild animals spawn some distance away from the player before they attack during night ambushes, giving your companions time to rally and ready their weapons and you time to get up and throw that chest full of goblinite at the attackers. This makes your formerly incompetent, useless companions into valuable assets if you plan to travel cross-country to kill a titan, travel that might take a week or more if you intend to skirt around that evil biome. As it is, I'm simply told to not sleep at night outside of hamlets or cities or fortresses, which doesn't seem right. It's unsafe, but it shouldn't be unsafe for the well prepared, well armed and experienced.

That's all I have to say. Anyone else have something to add?

Edit: Also had an idea. Human enemies could ambush you at night in closer proximity if they are trained assassins, and would be much more agile and have better weapon expertise than lowly brigands, perhaps starting with a line like "The Dark Wails of Medicine send their regards," or something. After all, they're trained  to be sneaky and paid by faction A to find you and kill you. Your guards wouldn't have such an easy time detecting them, but thankfully assassins would be few and far between. It would make fame and amassed allies and enemies just as dangerous as it is rewarding.


« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 05:41:33 pm by Urist MacNoob »
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Witty

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 07:59:45 pm »

You see, those ten soldiers are supposed to keep watch.

Well that plain just doesn't happen right now. Your companions sleep right along with you, no one stays up to protect the group. We'll probably have to wait for some companion interaction before you can issue orders like that. However, the next update is relating directly to companion loyalty and ambush tracking. So, maybe magic nocturnal bandits will be have been dealt with by then. And the combat overhaul will (hopefully) rid us of the dreaded tissue paper skull syndrome.
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Vlad

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 08:08:53 pm »

This will happen when companions get more fleshed out and maybe when bandits become more like criminals/low lifes who just want your money and stuff and not bloodthirsty madmen with the skills and experience of ex-army who kill everyone in sight for "fun?"
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Thuellai

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 09:09:35 pm »

Simpler idea - ambush distance is affected by the Observer skill and the Ambusher skill of the foe.

An alert dwarf (or companion) will create a larger radius that ambushers can't step into, whereas a dwarf with low observer and intuition may not notice that sneaky lion until it's munching on his shanks.  Likewise, stealthy critters and bandits will be able to creep closer without alerting the player, while some clumsy guy in full armor is going to clank his way into waking you up from hundreds of feet away.
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When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?

"So kids, what story do you want me to read to you tonight?"
"Oooh!  Oooh!  Goldibeard and the The Rotting Corpses!"
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Thuellai

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 09:11:08 pm »

maybe when bandits become more like criminals/low lifes who just want your money and stuff and not bloodthirsty madmen with the skills and experience of ex-army who kill everyone in sight for "fun?"

There was actually a fair mix.  A lot of local banditry did spring up from retired military who lacked other job skills and turned to what they were good at - hurting people - to make money.  Look at the ronin tradition in Japan - their robbery and protection rackets in vulnerable areas are supposedly the origin of its largest organized crime families.
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When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?

"So kids, what story do you want me to read to you tonight?"
"Oooh!  Oooh!  Goldibeard and the The Rotting Corpses!"
~LegacyCWAL

Urist MacNoob

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2013, 03:27:16 pm »

The observer suggestion is reasonable. Hoping that as said this might be fixed in the upcoming update. If not, chances are my only successful adventurers will be ones who have no need of sleep. If I don't sleep or fast travel my ten companions will run off chasing camels and die horribly before I get halfway to the titan and then I have the gracious choice of dying by lack of sleep and subsequent diminished combat skills or dying by being completely surrounded by bogeymen or bandits when I wake up and instantly die.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 03:29:48 pm by Urist MacNoob »
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Coldmonkey: "The idea that having flaming tools and introducing them to the intimate workings of someone you don't get along with is much too human for these forums. I mean, it's not really that hard, is it? Anyone can wield a torch, it doesn't prove anything. Wearing flaming clothes on the other hand, or better yet, wearing nothing at all and being on fire... that is the essence of dwarfish behavior."

Vlad

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2013, 04:26:05 pm »

maybe when bandits become more like criminals/low lifes who just want your money and stuff and not bloodthirsty madmen with the skills and experience of ex-army who kill everyone in sight for "fun?"

There was actually a fair mix.  A lot of local banditry did spring up from retired military who lacked other job skills and turned to what they were good at - hurting people - to make money.  Look at the ronin tradition in Japan - their robbery and protection rackets in vulnerable areas are supposedly the origin of its largest organized crime families.

Well it would really depend on the state of the world with the makeup of bandits varying depending on whats going on. But bandits still shouldn't kill you all the time, the best parasites don't kill their host they keep them alive so they can continue to feed on them later. If bandits killed everyone they met either they would've been wiped out or everyone else would be dead :P
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Thuellai

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2013, 06:20:07 pm »

Well, yeah.

I'm just saying in terms of skills and origins, a lot of bandits were ex-military.
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When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?

"So kids, what story do you want me to read to you tonight?"
"Oooh!  Oooh!  Goldibeard and the The Rotting Corpses!"
~LegacyCWAL

dwarfhoplite

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Re: Wilderness sleeping needs work, Toady
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 10:50:43 am »

We'll probably get tons of new items and content to adv mode sometime in the future. It seems that Toady is focusing on the roots and the trunk before adding leaves.
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