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Author Topic: BM XLII - Game Over: Mafia Win!  (Read 76350 times)

Powder Miner

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #405 on: August 05, 2013, 09:02:39 pm »

Griffin, my exact problem is that i bounce around between too many forums to actually do that- considering the rp game i moderate that has multi hour rounds.
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Nerjin

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - One Replacement Requested
« Reply #406 on: August 05, 2013, 10:17:45 pm »

Imperail Guardsman

Alright.
I voted you to see what you would do.
OMGUS?

Fair enough. Except that he didn't OMGUS you. He stated quite clearly his reason. Do you feel that GriffPup's actions at current have changed your opinion to be more certain towards his guilt/innocence?

Further-more are you comfortable with voting someone to a lynch JUST to see their reactions? Seems awfully like a lazy scum to me. How about you share your reads [a sentence or two should be fine] on every player. I find that doing this from time to time can be helpful to some players to organize your thoughts.


Hey Nerjin, why are you buddying griffinpup?

I'm not. I'm working on a bit of a lesser time schedule than I should [not enough to need to replace out as everything's taken care of now] due to a bit of a death in the family and a 50th wedding year thing for my grand-parents. BUT I voted IG due to a really lazy reason of voting Pup.


Ugh another replacement... Bah... EVERYONE NOT REPLACING OUT please state a case and vote. These games aren't fun if everyone lurks.


Holy fuck this game is having problems.

Depending on how difficult the launch of Lonely Prince is I may or may not replace in.  Have you tried trolling around the threshold list yet?

I don't think you can. You'd be an IC. Unless you're replacing NQT [dead] or Me [playing though I shall step aside as you'd be a better teacher] I don't think you can.


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Okami No Rei

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #407 on: August 05, 2013, 10:29:24 pm »

At this point I'd take anyone, beginner or no.  I'm sure Vector can handle playing like a beginner for a change.
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It is by the spice caffeine that thoughts acquire speed.
...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

Vector

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #408 on: August 05, 2013, 10:29:24 pm »

What?  Usually it's fine for anyone to replace into a BM, regardless of experience.  I'd just be playing, rather than serving as an IC.

But if I can't, then I can't.
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TheWetSheep

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #409 on: August 05, 2013, 11:47:53 pm »

If you need me to, I can come back into my old position(GUNINANRUNIN's) until Sunday, when I'll need to leave again.

Okami No Rei

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #410 on: August 05, 2013, 11:49:34 pm »

That would be appreciated.  I'll leave you as up for replacement.

TheWetSheep has replaced GUNINANRUNIN

36 Hours remain in the day.

Day 2 ends on Wednesday, August 7 at 8:00pm CST

TheWetSheep (0) -
griffinpup (2) - TheWetSheep, Imperial Guardsman
Griffionday (0) -
Powder Miner (0) -
Imperial Guardsman (2) - griffinpup, Nerjin
Chink (0) -
Nerjin (0) -

Not Voting - Powder Miner, Chink, Griffionday

NOTE: TIE VOTES WILL RESULT IN A NO-LYNCH

Extend (0/3) -
Shorten (0/4) -

Griffionday has requested replacement.
TheWetSheep has requested replacement.
Powder Miner has requested replacement.

I wonder if this will break the Lurker Tracker.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 07:16:38 am by Okami No Rei »
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It is by the spice caffeine that thoughts acquire speed.
...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

griffinpup

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #411 on: August 06, 2013, 10:28:00 am »

Griffin, my exact problem is that i bounce around between too many forums to actually do that- considering the rp game i moderate that has multi hour rounds.
>:(
OK.
 :(
I guess that works.
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TheWetSheep

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #412 on: August 06, 2013, 10:31:52 am »

I'm back! Unvote

Chink: You have contributed basically nothing this game. I know you're on vacation, but let's take a look at your posts:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To sum it up, you've had 10 posts. The first 7 are RVS, even when we had come out of RVS. The last bit's excusable, because of your vacation, but during late day 1, you said nothing whatsoever on the matter of DaveTheGrave's bandwagon, and ended up going to day end with an RVS vote on someone. Seems to me like you're trying to avoid attention.

Griffinpup:
Gun:
Your predecessor pursued the issue of my voting without substance significantly, and then immediately dropped it and moved on.  What's your opinion on the subject?  Do you know why he left the issue so abruptly?
What? I left it because you explained your reasoning and clarified something. Something you yourself said. So why does this make us suspicious?

GUN:
Please find time to respond to my post.
Did you not understand his post? He asked for a replacement, and said he had not time to keep up with the game. You have no right to ask this of someone who isn't in the game anymore.

griffinpup

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #413 on: August 06, 2013, 11:11:30 am »

Griffinpup:
Gun:
Your predecessor pursued the issue of my voting without substance significantly, and then immediately dropped it and moved on.  What's your opinion on the subject?  Do you know why he left the issue so abruptly?
What? I left it because you explained your reasoning and clarified something. Something you yourself said. So why does this make us suspicious?
Because after intentionally avoiding your original question instead of answering it, I quibbled over a little detail. you thought that that was the answer to your question, and pushed.  When I explained that that wasn't actually meant to answer to your question, you immediately dropped the issue.  You never asked for an actual answer to your question.  At this time you were coming under fire from NQT from pushing a meaningless detail, which I believe motivated you to drop the issue as quickly as you did.  So, TWS, why did you drop the issue so quickly even though I never answered your question?

GUN:
Please find time to respond to my post.
Did you not understand his post? He asked for a replacement, and said he had not time to keep up with the game. You have no right to ask this of someone who isn't in the game anymore.
I have every right.  Players asking for replacements have an obligation to continue playing to the best of their ability until such time as they are replaced.  Notice Griffionday still playing.  HE WAS STILL IN THE GAME.  But since he is now replaced, respond to my post and all unanswered questions.
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TheWetSheep

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #414 on: August 06, 2013, 12:47:44 pm »

So, TWS, why did you drop the issue so quickly even though I never answered your question?
Actually, you did.
Why not?  I'm not sure what you're looking for with this conversation.  I wanted to be the first one to post.  I didn't have time to do a full set of RVS, but I hate when people are like "first post!"  so I decided to throw out my vote on one of the new people.  It was purely a reaction-test.  Think of it as seeing how the new kid reacts to being called scum for fallacious reasoning.  It was just luck that the person I 'omgused' actually did suck.

Quote
But since he is now replaced, respond to my post and all unanswered questions.
I can't. All that post is relating to Gun's case on you, a case I don't agree with. I can't answer questions like "Do you disagree with the advice or not?".

griffinpup

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - One Replacement Requested
« Reply #415 on: August 06, 2013, 01:10:59 pm »

So, TWS, why did you drop the issue so quickly even though I never answered your question?
Actually, you did.
Why not?  I'm not sure what you're looking for with this conversation.  I wanted to be the first one to post.  I didn't have time to do a full set of RVS, but I hate when people are like "first post!"  so I decided to throw out my vote on one of the new people.  It was purely a reaction-test.  Think of it as seeing how the new kid reacts to being called scum for fallacious reasoning.  It was just luck that the person I 'omgused' actually did suck.

Quote
But since he is now replaced, respond to my post and all unanswered questions.
I can't. All that post is relating to Gun's case on you, a case I don't agree with. I can't answer questions like "Do you disagree with the advice or not?".
Fair enough.
Attempt to respond to this then.
Quote
I'd be very interested in knowing how YOU know that I knew that Dave was scum.  I might just be forgetful, but I don't ever remember saying so.
I remember you being quite confident that Dave was just bad Town, and yet no unvote, or even a shred of an attempt to build a case on someone else.
1. Quote where I said that Dave was just bad town.  That is, unless you're making it up.
or even a shred of an attempt to build a case on someone else. Everyone was convinced that Dave was bad Town, and were all ready to get rid of him because of that, but the important part here is that in the meantime they also made attempts to try getting information out of other players. You didn't.
2. Liar.  Go read the thread again.  In almost every one of my posts I dealt with issues other then Dave as well.
1.  Please quote where I said that Dave was just bad town.  If you can't find it, please give me an explanation on why Gun was so confident that it existed.
2.  Do you agree that Gun was lying?
1. Gun, you're the definition of being driven by emotions over reason.  Of course you're accusing me because you don't like me.  You are attacking the person who prodded you out of lurking.  You have yet to initiate a conversation with ANYONE besides me. (tunneling) In fact, the only things from you addressed to someone else are in response to a direct question or to defend your case.  Your case is made of cardboard and tinfoil, and with such terrible reasoning for why I'm scum you're obviously motivated by something other then logic.  The fact that you keep dropping your fallacious points without another comment and endlessly moving on to more of them also agrees with that.

Your argument also doesn't make sense. "You're accusing me of being emotionally driven, so it's obviously you who is" isn't a very good argument, nor does it make sense.

Quote
But even your accusation of giving you advice after other people give you advice is partially flawed.  The only recent advice given to you by an IC was given by Nerjin in the post before me.  I actually wrote the majority of my post BEFORE Nerjin posted his.
I was using the term bandwagon to highlight that you were sidestepping my accusation by giving me advice, as Nerjin had just done. I suppose I could understand how you would be mistaken due to the context, or rather the setting.

2. What?  Clarify this point.
Speaking of hypocrites, you went on to accuse me of avoiding questions and making up excuses for not seeing them later in your post, which is exactly what you're doing right now. Ironically, you answered all the questions you said you missed. So.. good job I guess? You don't need to dodge questions you've already answered. Heh. :P
3. Again, your point is lost on me.  You have avoided questions.  I never avoided answering questions.  Answering questions isn't scummy.

Quote
But regardless, the situation didn't change whatsoever.  My earlier case and accusations and questions were still applicable.  He still hadn't answered my case in any way, shape, or form.  I had already tried prodding him multiple times, and that didn't work.  I saw no reason to prod again at day end when not only would he might not have time to answer my prod, but when his answer probably wouldn't be satisfactory if he even acknowledged the prod at all.
I like how you were trying to make it sound like you were busy during those 24 hours that you didn't post, but in reality, you were aware of what was going on at that time, but instead chose not to post. Is that not correct?
4. Your accusation is...  What exactly?  And what about my answer is unsatisfactory? 
1.  Do you agree or disagree that Gun was being emotionally driven, and why?
2,3,4: Do you know what his points were?
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TheWetSheep

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #416 on: August 06, 2013, 01:49:12 pm »

Griffpup: OK... trawling through the thread that much might take some time. But first: why did you edit this post? You know editing isn't allowed by now. *Checks time stamps* Five days later? Why?

1.  Please quote where I said that Dave was just bad town.  If you can't find it, please give me an explanation on why Gun was so confident that it existed.
2.  Do you agree that Gun was lying?
1. This is the closest thing I could find:
Dave is stupid, and is either super stupid, or panicking scum.  Without answers to my questions, and what looks like an OMGUS and bandwagon vote in an attempt to save himself, he looks decidedly scummy.  This could merely be extreme newbiness, but I doubt it.
It's pretty hard to interpret it how he was, though.
2. You seem to have addressed others enough in late D1, yes.

Quote
1. Gun, you're the definition of being driven by emotions over reason.  Of course you're accusing me because you don't like me.  You are attacking the person who prodded you out of lurking.  You have yet to initiate a conversation with ANYONE besides me. (tunneling) In fact, the only things from you addressed to someone else are in response to a direct question or to defend your case.  Your case is made of cardboard and tinfoil, and with such terrible reasoning for why I'm scum you're obviously motivated by something other then logic.  The fact that you keep dropping your fallacious points without another comment and endlessly moving on to more of them also agrees with that.

Your argument also doesn't make sense. "You're accusing me of being emotionally driven, so it's obviously you who is" isn't a very good argument, nor does it make sense.

Quote
But even your accusation of giving you advice after other people give you advice is partially flawed.  The only recent advice given to you by an IC was given by Nerjin in the post before me.  I actually wrote the majority of my post BEFORE Nerjin posted his.
I was using the term bandwagon to highlight that you were sidestepping my accusation by giving me advice, as Nerjin had just done. I suppose I could understand how you would be mistaken due to the context, or rather the setting.

2. What?  Clarify this point.
Speaking of hypocrites, you went on to accuse me of avoiding questions and making up excuses for not seeing them later in your post, which is exactly what you're doing right now. Ironically, you answered all the questions you said you missed. So.. good job I guess? You don't need to dodge questions you've already answered. Heh. :P
3. Again, your point is lost on me.  You have avoided questions.  I never avoided answering questions.  Answering questions isn't scummy.

Quote
But regardless, the situation didn't change whatsoever.  My earlier case and accusations and questions were still applicable.  He still hadn't answered my case in any way, shape, or form.  I had already tried prodding him multiple times, and that didn't work.  I saw no reason to prod again at day end when not only would he might not have time to answer my prod, but when his answer probably wouldn't be satisfactory if he even acknowledged the prod at all.
I like how you were trying to make it sound like you were busy during those 24 hours that you didn't post, but in reality, you were aware of what was going on at that time, but instead chose not to post. Is that not correct?
4. Your accusation is...  What exactly?  And what about my answer is unsatisfactory? 
1.  Do you agree or disagree that Gun was being emotionally driven, and why?
2,3,4: Do you know what his points were?
1. I guess he was. I know from experience that it's very easy to become emotionally invested in mafia games, and I saw in a post from the General Discussion subforum that he said "The mafia subforum is a scary place". It looked like he had decided you were scum for emotional reasons then tried to build a case on you, instead of vice versa.
2. He was saying that you gave him advice to put up a smokescreen and dodge his accusations.
3. I think he was admitting a mistake, saying you actually had answered all the questions.
4. He seems to think that you were watching the thread those 24 hours, because you knew what happened during them. It doesn't make much sense.

Okami No Rei

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #417 on: August 06, 2013, 08:12:55 pm »

12 Hours remain in the day.

Day 2 ends on Wednesday, August 7 at 8:00pm CST

TheWetSheep (0) -
griffinpup (1) - Imperial Guardsman
Griffionday (0) -
Powder Miner (0) -
Imperial Guardsman (2) - griffinpup, Nerjin
Chink (1) - TheWetSheep
Nerjin (0) -

Not Voting - Powder Miner, Chink, Griffionday

Extend (0/3) -
Shorten (0/4) -

Griffionday has requested replacement.
TheWetSheep has requested replacement.
Powder Miner has requested replacement.

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griffinpup - Do not edit your posts.  This is your only warning.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 07:30:02 am by Okami No Rei »
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It is by the spice caffeine that thoughts acquire speed.
...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

TheWetSheep

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #418 on: August 07, 2013, 09:41:17 am »

Extend.

Griffionday

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Re: BM XLII - Day Two - Goblin Food - Three Replacements Requested
« Reply #419 on: August 07, 2013, 10:48:53 am »

Extend

GUN:
Please find time to respond to my post.
Did you not understand his post? He asked for a replacement, and said he had not time to keep up with the game. You have no right to ask this of someone who isn't in the game anymore.
I have every right.  Players asking for replacements have an obligation to continue playing to the best of their ability until such time as they are replaced.  Notice Griffionday still playing.  HE WAS STILL IN THE GAME.  But since he is now replaced, respond to my post and all unanswered questions.
Hahaha... No you don't have the right, I'm an exception in that I'm trying to not disrupt the flow and explicitly stated that I'll still be around to answer questions.  Note that I'm failing at that.

I still don't see what was confusing about IG's reads.  They seemed rather straightforward to me.
This seemed straightforward?
Powderminer is activelurking from the look of it, but he is still asking good questions and actively trying to obtain information.
Town, leaning towards scum.
Yeah.  As I read it he sees Powder Miner as town; however, on the scum side of the town spectrum.  The second part qualifies the first, not replacing it.

Obviously every single contradiction a player can make isn't scummy.  I'm not looking for those.  But let's say Player X day one has a super aggressive playstyle and tends to ignore accusations against them.  In day two however, he acts defensively, and only halfheartedly pursues targets.  I would argue that that is a scummy change of playstyle.  Also note the contradiction NQT did last Revolution.  He played up analysis of teams and votes far more then actual discussion, but then mentioned a viable scum strategy "supposedly" to initiate such discussion.  This slip up eventually led to the discovery that he was scum.
The first case I think is a fairly common sign of fatuige, which is more common in town than scum.  As for the NQT thing, I think it was him failing to satisfactory answer questions that exposed him.  A thought though: this would not have outed Nerjin, so your strategy is of limited utility.  (Not that my tunneling is any better).

I heartily disagree.  If the point was to leave RVS as quickly as possible, you wouldn't ask questions applicable to mafia.  It may be good to leave the RVS phase quickly, but the point is to look for contradictions in what people say and do later in the game.
Uh, I totally would and do.  The questions let you see into their mind as it relates to the game, this lets you decide which people to start actually pressuring.  Finding contradictions between what someone says they will do and what they do is VERY different from finding contradictions in what they do from day to day, the latter of which is actually scummy.

Saying: "What is my post frequency?" is a bullshit way of getting someone to admit that you are not lurking.  Prodding based on content you added to the game I could understand, but asking him to analyze the frequency of your posts seems needlessly defensive.
Wrong.  Making someone explain that they are wrong is always better then explaining why someone is.  This probably comes from the debater me though.

Asking him to analyze the frequency of my posts shouldn't of been a problem if he were telling the truth.  He would of already looked at that before making the accusation of lurking.  Only if he was lying about his motivation for voting me would my question make him do additional work.
I'm not saying explain to him why you aren't lurking, I'm saying only defending yourself based on posting frequency is stupid. 

So you're saying one should do heavy research before voting for someone based on a case?  I agree in theory, but in practice this means that votes like Nerjin's current one are going to be more common.  I prefer having a case on the person you wish to lynch over leaving your pressure vote on someone who hasn't responded.
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