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[DaveTheGrave]

Impact in italics is nearly illegible anyway.
Translation:
DaveTheGrave : You are the cop. It is near game end. Do you claim cop and give all your results, resulting in a certain lynch from the mafia if the JK isnt alive, or do you wait until you are certain you can do this to safely end the bullysaboteur dwarf threat?

Obviously you'd d it safely.

[DaveTheGrave]

I'd also like to: Unvote Imperial, Vote Griffin

[Imperial Guardsman]

I'd also like to: Unvote Imperial, Vote Griffin

Y u do dis

[griffinpup]

Griffinpup:

Griffinpup: But why was your only accompaniment to your random vote a non-applicable acronym?

I would argue that it is applicable.  I'm under the impression that Boy sucks.  This is evident by his lurking and failure to post meaningful content.

Uh... what? That was the first post of the game. Nobody else had posted by that time. And why use OMGUS literally, instead of what it's usually used for?

Why not?  I'm not sure what you're looking for with this conversation.  I wanted to be the first one to post.  I didn't have time to do a full set of RVS, but I hate when people are like "first post!"  so I decided to throw out my vote on one of the new people.  It was purely a reaction-test.  Think of it as seeing how the new kid reacts to being called scum for fallacious reasoning.  It was just luck that the person I 'omgused' actually did suck.

GriffDay:
Sorry for not quoting, but I'm on my tablet right now, and quoting on a tablet is atrocious. 
Hypothetically  speaking, if I were scum, I wouldn't play anything specifically different then as town.  My lynch targets would just be different.  I'be not played scum yet in any mafia game on this forum yet, so I don't really know how my play would change.

PPE:
Dave:
And why did you vote me?
Also, why didn't you answer my question?

[DaveTheGrave]

I'd also like to: Unvote Imperial, Vote Griffin

Y u do dis

Why are you concerned.

PPE:
Dave:
And why did you vote me?
Also, why didn't you answer my question?

I lost suspicion for one, and gained one for another.

I didnt se eyour question, allow me to sift backwards through the thread.

Dave:
Do you think Imperial Guardsmen is scum?
Why did you offer multiple and contradicting reasons for leaving your vote on IG? (Imperial Guardsmen)

I did, and still have suspicion. I did not, in fact, offer contradicting reasons. Provide evidence of this and I will elaborate.

 

[griffinpup]

Dave:
You have stated that you found IG scummy, so you left your vote on him.  You also said that you left your vote on him as incentive to remove his.  Which is it?

I lost suspicion for one, and gained one for another.
- snip
I did, and still have suspicion.

In your latest post you offer a contradiction.  These are both about IG, and you say that you have lost any and all suspicion for him in your first statement.  You then say that you still have suspicion.  Which is it, and why the contradiction?
Why am I suddenly so suspicious? Is it because I voted you?

ICs:
I do need your guys' help on this one.  How do I handle someone so... Illogical that I can't even understand or justify any of their questions taken?
IG:
When I wrote your RSV question, this is what I meant.
Why didn't you ask RVS questions to everyone?

Powder Miner:

If you're not finding new people to go after, that's a bad thing. You shouldn't only be focusing on voting IG into the ground, Dave (that's called tunneling, by the way), instead you should be gathering data on multiple people. That's why you should change it- ignoring everyone else in favor of one man can often be seen as scummy.

I politely disagree.  You totally should go after multiple people at a time, but I don't see that as a reason to change your vote.  If you think one person is the mafia, you BETTER be voting him over everyone else.

That's not what I meant. If Dave truly only has his vote on IG because there's "no reason to change", that means he's not actually finding anything to do. You shouldn't ever not be voting/pointlessly leave a vote somewhere due to having nothing to do

OK. That makes more sense.

[Powder Miner]

H-h-holy JESUS. That was the most OBVIOUS BANDWAGON. Let me explain what a bandwagon is to you. It's where somebody votes somebody who people are ganging up on in order to get them lynched, or in your case, trying to tie the vote. YOU ARE DOING THAT. You provided literally no reasoning whatsoever for that vote! Not even a trivial sentence! You said nothing about how you found him suspicious, leading me to believe you don't find him suspicious at all! You're just scum trying to worm your way out of a death by tying the vote! That's not happening. ...And you still dodged his question
Nerjin, I still want an answer out of you, but...
That was unbelievably scummy. Good Lord. Unvote, DavetheGrave.

[Nerjin]

DaveTheGrave

Impact in italics is nearly illegible anyway.
Translation:
DaveTheGrave : You are the cop. It is near game end. Do you claim cop and give all your results, resulting in a certain lynch from the mafia if the JK isnt alive, or do you wait until you are certain you can do this to safely end the bullysaboteur dwarf threat?

Obviously you'd d it safely.

Please elaborate Mr. Dave. That doesn't really make sense.

I'd also like to: Unvote Imperial, Vote Griffin

Y u do dis

Why are you concerned.

Alright this is a HUGE thing. You HAVE to state your reasoning. No matter what. Why do you think Griffin is scum? What post tipped you off? Are you just trying to save yourself here? If you are scum I highly suggest you talk to the Scum-IC. If not please state your reasoning for your votes.

ICs:
I do need your guys' help on this one.  How do I handle someone so... Illogical that I can't even understand or justify any of their questions taken?

Press, ask for clarification, and then vote for them if they simply refuse to be helpful. Not helping town is scummy. However that's MY opinion and not the opinion of the Bay12 Mafia Collective. I'd wait for NQT's thoughts on the subject before you act. The reason I feel this way is that if someone isn't being helpful then they'll be targeted sooner or later by town so may as well get rid of them early on so that there isn't a big snaffu regarding them.

On Band-Wagoning to Save Yourself as Town

Do not do this. Under any circumstances. Even if it saves you for one day it'll get you killed the next. Imagine this scenario for better clarification:

A, B, C, D, E, F, and G are playing Mafia. A has 3 votes, G has 2 votes, and A hasn't voted yet. A votes G at the  last minute and no one is lynched.

That night C dies. A, B, D, E, F, and G all come back. Obviously G screwed town over so he could get one more kill off right? So EVERYONE targets G. Problem is that G flipped town when he was lynched. So he simply delayed his death and gave the scum a day-game of relative ease.

Always remember that your personal survival isn't an issue for most roles. If you are pure town or even most power roles you can afford to die. Even an early game mislynch is preferable to a no-lynch as it gives out information.

[Nerjin]

Nerjin, I still want an answer out of you, but...

Well I feel like a bit of a jerk now for getting on Imperial about this... Uh what question did you ask me?

[Powder Miner]

Nerjin, it looks a little bit to me like you're active lurking. Sure you went after Dave when he dropped an incredibly strong scumtell, but after that, you've only asked him one thing that even looks like a question- indeed, while you've been doing your job as an IC and answering all the questions that have been thrown at you, you haven't really been attacking anyone- you haven't been scumhunting, not even the guy you put your vote on. What do you have to say in defense?

[Powder Miner]

Admittedly, the most recent post of yours does somewhat weaken that, but I still want that responded to.

[Nerjin]

Nerjin, it looks a little bit to me like you're active lurking. Sure you went after Dave when he dropped an incredibly strong scumtell, but after that, you've only asked him one thing that even looks like a question- indeed, while you've been doing your job as an IC and answering all the questions that have been thrown at you, you haven't really been attacking anyone- you haven't been scumhunting, not even the guy you put your vote on. What do you have to say in defense?

I have no idea how I missed that... WELL the simple answer is that I'm trying to be helpful. Like I've said: Learning here is the MOST important thing. Sure winning is fun but my job is to guide you fellows and ladies on how to play. After I'm sure you're all settled into what mafia really is at the core THEN I'll try to teach more through example. Until then I won't be "attacking" anyone. If you want a baptism by fire you'll have to look somewhere else I'm afraid.

[Powder Miner]

Eheh, that seems alright enough, and what I figured the answer might be anyway. de-FoS Nerjin because it means so much to do so yeah
I'm tired, going to get some sleep.

[Griffionday]

Imperial Guardsman:

Heres to hoping the town has a cop.

Why
NQT

I wanted to know your criterion for a day 1 lynch-- this isn't a purely hypothetical question as I'll be looking at how you (and everyone else) votes as the day goes on. A good RVS question is posed as a trap. I'm glad you don't condone policy lynches (other than lynching self-proclaimed scum, which is reasonable). 'Seeming the most scummy' is a bit vague. Do you want to be more specific?

What I intended my answer to imply is that I don't have a specific day 1 criterion.  Why should I?  I hardly have a specific criterion ever, why should I have a subcategory that applies to a specific day outside of mylo?

Counter question: at the end of the day, should you always be voting for the person you most want lynched? What about in cases where that person has a clear lead in the vote, and you've explicitly stated your approval of his lynch?

[notquitethere]

TheWetSheep

Yes, but not in a way that will help me determine if you are scum or town. That makes your answer wrong, I guess.

The more you know about your fellow player's baseline reactions to things, the easier it is to judge when they're reacting strangely to something. But I take your point: don't think either of us are gaining anything properly useful from this exchange yet.

Your vote on Griffinpup is very weak: they obviously started the game with an empty vote like most players do. It's an odd thing to pressure someone on. Where's the issue?

Nerjin

The IC voice is to be used ONLY as a teaching tool. If you abuse it here I shall rally against you in every single game you are a part of. You seem like a nice guy. You better not sabotage all of these new guys' first game of mafia by being a total ass. Other than out-right abuse I plan to just look at you like I normally do. Pointing out scummy behavior and the like.

That's a reasonable answer (and of course, I wouldn't sabotage someone's game like that-- there's no honour in such a win). You've got every chance of being scum, but at least we can agree about the abuse of authority.

Griffinpup

2. I fail to see the difference.  Avoiding answering questions, regardless of the reason, is dodging questions.

Then could you answer this RVS question I asked you:

How important do you think inter-game meta is?

ICs:
I do need your guys' help on this one.  How do I handle someone so... Illogical that I can't even understand or justify any of their questions taken?

Nerjin might take a different view, but I would counsel always looking at the other person's posts and asking yourself "Why would a town player say these things?" If you don't understand part of another person's post (perhaps because of their use of language -- this used to happen to me a bit with Tiruin), assume they meant the most intelligent interpretation of what they wrote or calmly ask them to rephrase things.

DaveTheGrave

I'd also like to: Unvote Imperial, Vote Griffin

Y u do dis

Why are you concerned.

It's reasonable to question a vote which isn't accompanied with either a reason for suspicion or a pressuring question.

Griffionday

What I intended my answer to imply is that I don't have a specific day 1 criterion.  Why should I?  I hardly have a specific criterion ever, why should I have a subcategory that applies to a specific day outside of mylo?

Counter question: at the end of the day, should you always be voting for the person you most want lynched? What about in cases where that person has a clear lead in the vote, and you've explicitly stated your approval of his lynch?

The different thing about day 1 is that there is no info to be gained from flips and less time has passed for scum to make a flip. Under these different conditions, certain scum-tells might be more important than others. It's okay if you don't have an overarching theory on how to play day 1, but I thought I'd check.

By the end of the day you should be voting for the player you want lynched, unless tactically voting for someone else would save a confirmed town player (say, if you're the cop). Even when your lynch candidate is the clear majority and your vote isn't adding anything to that, you'd have to have a very good reason for voting for someone else (perhaps role-power related), and it's not a situation I could justifiably happening in a BM. Do you disagree?