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[birdy51]

Let's get this day started. We finally have enough players to actually get around to playing the game, so let's take advantage of it. It's late, so I'm going to make this quick...

Griffinpup: I've noticed your play style has shifted into a much more aggressive style than what I have seen in the past. What caused this sort of change?


Squill: Welcome to the game. Are you scum?


Rolepgeek: There are some questions from Day 2 that you've overlooked, including one from me and one from Griffionday. Do you plan on addressing them anytime soon?


Nerjin: Yesterday, you came into the vote very late and was not given any chances to give in your insight on the situation as a whole. How do you plan on addressing Day 3?

[Squill]

Squill: Welcome to the game. Are you scum?

No, but if I was, I see no reason to say so.
Also, I feel confused. I have a vague idea of the ongoings, but the specifics are beyond me. I don't think the personal feud helped, but it seems to be a little bit clearer.

[Rolepgeek]

All: So what's everyone's reads on the subject? For my own, it goes a little something like this.

birdy51: Still think he could be scum, but the fact that he was the first to make a case against IG, and IG was scum, makes this less likely.

Squill: I don't think he's scum, mainly because Griffionday was gone and so probably couldn't put in the Mafiakill like that.

Nerjin: Could very well be scum. He's an IC, so that makes me doubtful, though. He was the fourth to vote for IG, meaning he may have been voting as a bandwagon to make himself seem town.

Griffinpup: The person I think is most likely to be scum, as he may have been building the arguement between him and IG to make it seem like they were at odds and thus neither was scum. Also, for whatever reason, he got really pissy with Griffionday, in addition to insulting his playstyle whilst simultaneously telling Griffionday to stop doing the same to him. And yet he's been the one to continuously comment about people being 'emotionally-driven'.

FAKEEDITSERIOUSLYIT'SFAKE: I hadn't noticed those questions, actually, birdy. I'll answer them now.

For Griffionday's question, I would think it would be easy if you pretended you were town. That sounds ridiculous, but basically, if you act the exact same way you would as if you were town, then you're indistinguishable, right? This is my first game, so the only thing I can see that would make it easier or harder is other people screwing up the DavetheGrave did, or cops getting lucky.

For yours, I'm thinking Powder Miner kept his vote on him for the same reason everyone else voted him in the first place; he was acting really scummy. Or at least we thought he did. Considering that IG was the one who voted him, and griffinpup and him started pumping him and sending him into a panic, which at least for me, casts some suspicion on griffinpup. But yeah, I think he kept the vote on because he thought it was the best idea to do. Probably. I'm not him. I could PM him, if you like.

[Okami No Rei]

I could PM him, if you like.

Please don't.  It's best to assume he's gone entirely.  Otherwise complications arise over whether or not you're reporting his words truthfully.  It also removes responsibility from you for his answers, which should be your answers.

If you want a technical reason why you shouldn't, discussion of an ongoing game outside the thread or mod-sanctioned chat rooms is a modkillable/bannable offense.

[Rolepgeek]

Okay. Didn't realize, my apologies.

[Squill]

So, I'm very new to this, so I'm probably wrong, but if I had to guess I'd go for Nerjin first, as he's been very quiet, or so it seems to me, or griffinpup, because as rolepgeek has pointed out, griffin's been very argumentative.

[Nerjin]

Squill: Welcome to the game. Are you scum?

[...]

Nerjin: Yesterday, you came into the vote very late and was not given any chances to give in your insight on the situation as a whole. How do you plan on addressing Day 3?

Your first question is kinda... Wasted. But I suppose it's a fair enough one. As for the question addressed to me: I'm going to reread days 1 and 2 and then get back to you on that one. After every day you should re-read the previous ones. Even if it's just a quick re-read to refresh your memory.

Squill: I don't think he's scum, mainly because Griffionday was gone and so probably couldn't put in the Mafiakill like that.

Squill could have replaced in during the time gap. Plus it doesn't take much to initiate a mafiakill so it could have been GriffDay. "Kill Webadict" is pretty quick to type. So don't give Squill a free pass on that.

Nerjin: Could very well be scum. He's an IC, so that makes me doubtful, though. He was the fourth to vote for IG, meaning he may have been voting as a bandwagon to make himself seem town.

NEVER assume an IC isn't scum. There've been games where both IC's are scum. But it wasn't a bandwagon. I provided evidence and didn't just say "Oh yep, IG is scum so screw that square."

For Griffionday's question, I would think it would be easy if you pretended you were town. That sounds ridiculous, but basically, if you act the exact same way you would as if you were town, then you're indistinguishable, right? This is my first game, so the only thing I can see that would make it easier or harder is other people screwing up the DavetheGrave did, or cops getting lucky.

For yours, I'm thinking Powder Miner kept his vote on him for the same reason everyone else voted him in the first place; he was acting really scummy. Or at least we thought he did. Considering that IG was the one who voted him, and griffinpup and him started pumping him and sending him into a panic, which at least for me, casts some suspicion on griffinpup. But yeah, I think he kept the vote on because he thought it was the best idea to do. Probably. I'm not him. I could PM him, if you like.

If you aren't answering a question directly above your post you should always quote it so that people know what you're talking about.

So, I'm very new to this, so I'm probably wrong, but if I had to guess I'd go for Nerjin first, as he's been very quiet, or so it seems to me, or griffinpup, because as rolepgeek has pointed out, griffin's been very argumentative.

I recommend rereading the Original Post. There's a handy scum-hunting guide there. One of the rules is to NEVER show doubt. Otherwise I could easily say something such as "Oh so you're not sure? Why are you voting if you're not sure? Maybe it just doesn't matter to you who dies scumbag!" but much more elegantly phrased. Yeah, but the reason I was so quiet is because I was busy with RL stuff.

[griffinpup]

Griffinpup: 1. The person I think is most likely to be scum, as he may have been building the arguement between him and IG to make it seem like they were at odds and thus neither was scum. 2. Also, for whatever reason, he got really pissy with Griffionday, 3. in addition to insulting his playstyle whilst simultaneously telling Griffionday to stop doing the same to him. 4. And yet he's been the one to continuously comment about people being 'emotionally-driven'.

1.  WIFOM like none other.
2.  Not a scumtell.
3.  I never insulted Griffionday's playstyle, only Griffionday as a person.
4.  "Emotionally Driven" and "Feels Emotion" are two separate and distinct things.
People seem to be confused with emotion and how it relates to scummitude, so I'll attempt to explain it completely.

Thinking someone is scum because you don't like them is STUPID.  It doesn't follow logically.  Just because you hate someone doesn't make them more likely to be scum.  However, this doesn't mean that you can't become emotionally involved in this game, just don't let it mess with your opinions of who the scum are.  I was pissed with how Griffionday kept on implying my certain scummitude, but never acted on it or brought an actual case to bear, so I told him to stuff it.  That doesn't automatically mean I think he's scum.

One thing that I'm currently confused at.  If you think that I'm probably scum, why aren't you voting me?  It is a scumtell to avoid calling someone scum or being reluctant to vote someone you "think" is scum, both of which you're doing.

[Rolepgeek]

I haven't voted anyone because I don't fully believe any one person is scum yet. I'll vote when I'm sure of it, or as sure as I can be.

What's WIFOM mean? I only bring it up because the idea (of falsifying an argument between scum to make it seem like only one or the other or neither was) was brought up in the game.

Also, Another part of the reason I didn't vote is because I still need to reread the thread and make sure I'm not mixing up Griffionday and griffinpup, because they keep getting mixed up in my head.

[Okami No Rei]

Day Three will end on Tuesday, August 20 at 8:00pm.

griffinpup (0) -
Squill (1) - birdy51
Rolepgeek (0) -
birdy51 (0) -
Nerjin (1) - Squill

Not Voting - griffinpup, Rolepgeek, Nerjin

Extend (0/2) -
Shorten (0/3) -

Lurker Tracker

[griffinpup]

Gah.
Sorry for double(ish) post

Griffinpup: I've noticed your play style has shifted into a much more aggressive style than what I have seen in the past. What caused this sort of change?

Two-fold.
1. Rage mode turned on.
2. And I get more aggressive later in the game as I tend to scumhunt more late-game then I have substance to work with.

Rolepgeek:
WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me.  If you're familier with the princess bride, you can remember when the dude was trying to pick which cup of wine to drink using circular reasoning...

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

Or just read more about it here. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM
This was basically what you were doing.
While WIFOM is not entirely invalid in SOME cases, it isn't enough to build a case out of.
I assume that every point that you failed to mention is agreed with by you.

[Rolepgeek]

Griffinpup:More or less, yeah. Though I hadn't been mentioning you being pissed with Griffion as a scumtell, I was just curious.

But as for WIFOM, again, earlier in the thread someone brought up manufacturing a disagreement between the two scum to make each other look non-scum. If it had not been brought up, I would consider it, but it was, and this all occurred afterwards, so my suspicion is that scum got inspired.

Another reason I have for suspecting you is that now that I've confirmed it was you and not Griffionday, you were helping IG in the beginning, to put pressure on DavetheGrave. IG obviously knew he wasn't scum, so it makes one wonder if you were working together to get him lynched.

[griffinpup]

But as for WIFOM, again, earlier in the thread someone brought up manufacturing a disagreement between the two scum to make each other look non-scum. If it had not been brought up, I would consider it, but it was, and this all occurred afterwards, so my suspicion is that scum got inspired.

Another reason I have for suspecting you is that now that I've confirmed it was you and not Griffionday, you were helping IG in the beginning, to put pressure on DavetheGrave. IG obviously knew he wasn't scum, so it makes one wonder if you were working together to get him lynched.

Rolepgeek:
Do you disagree with my case on Dave?
And please elaborate on you first paragraph.  I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.

Birdy12:
Your predecessor lurked incessantly.
He sat his vote on Powder Miner day one, and never really commented on the lynching of Dave.
Chink never actually interacted with IG in anything but RVS.  This is a classic newb scumtell.  Scum attempt to simultaneously avoid bringing attention to their partner and avoid any associative tells with said partner.  This commonly involves no interaction whatsoever between them.
And since you've replaced in, you've voted IG. 

Imperial Guardsman: Support your arguments. Preferably in something longer than single sentence groups. Beyond the flimsy reasoning on the basis of a mislynch, you didn't seem to have a single good reason for holding your vote on Griffonpup besides the fact that two other players had already voted for him. Do explain yourself.

But the interesting thing about this vote was how it was conditioned.
You never called IG scum.  In fact, you're not even voting him to be lynched.  No, you're voting him until he can explain his arguments.  This seems more and more like an attempt to go with what is popular opinion, but have a viable excuse to remove your vote if the opportunity presents itself and if your scumbuddy can be saved.  You continue this pattern with the rest of your posts.
more later

[birdy51]

Birdy12:
Your predecessor lurked incessantly.
He sat his vote on Powder Miner day one, and never really commented on the lynching of Dave.
Chink never actually interacted with IG in anything but RVS.  This is a classic newb scumtell.  Scum attempt to simultaneously avoid bringing attention to their partner and avoid any associative tells with said partner.  This commonly involves no interaction whatsoever between them.

This argument again... Yes Chink lurked. This is a fact that has been pounded down already. That is where your argument stops making sense.

You say he never had any strong interactions with IG. While true, Chink also never had any interactions outside of RVS with NQT. Further you have tastefully neglected to mention that he also had nearly no interactions with two other players, TheWetSheep/ Guninanarunin, and Griffionday. Chink avoiding addressing just Imperial Guardsman. He just never took the opportunity to address anyone.

And since you've replaced in, you've voted IG. 

Imperial Guardsman: Support your arguments. Preferably in something longer than single sentence groups. Beyond the flimsy reasoning on the basis of a mislynch, you didn't seem to have a single good reason for holding your vote on Griffonpup besides the fact that two other players had already voted for him. Do explain yourself.

But the interesting thing about this vote was how it was conditioned.
You never called IG scum.  In fact, you're not even voting him to be lynched.  No, you're voting him until he can explain his arguments.  This seems more and more like an attempt to go with what is popular opinion, but have a viable excuse to remove your vote if the opportunity presents itself and if your scumbuddy can be saved.  You continue this pattern with the rest of your posts.
more later

Finally something new.

Yes, I voted for IG. But I was not confident that he was scum, due to the sheer lack of content that he put out. So I pressured him so he could provide answers. When nothing came out of my vote, I was compelled to keep the vote there and lynch him for lurking. We've been through this. It's a pattern for a reason. I case you haven't noticed, this is a BM. My own goal is to see both myself and other players improve.

I'm not out to lynch everything in sight. If Imperial Guardsman had given a proper defense for himself, I would have unvoted him, even if not a single other player agreed with me.

I'd say more, but this weekend is a bit busy for me.

Rolepgeek, Squill, Nerjin. I have not forgotten any of you, so bear with me for a bit as I will try to be on later to tonight to address you guys. Also, unvote

[birdy51]

I fear that I may have lied to you all.

Things have come up, and I will be postponing my responses until tomorrow.