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Author Topic: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Money In The Bank  (Read 33636 times)

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #195 on: June 30, 2013, 08:20:44 pm »

[The biggest problem is: Is it efficient and safe enough to be worthwhile?]
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Rolepgeek

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #196 on: June 30, 2013, 08:57:16 pm »

[Nope. Possible? Yes. Vast amounts of energy? Yes. Dangerous as fuck? Yes.]

[It's something that would, like, power a Deathstar or an Orbital Military Academy. It's too dangerous for almost any use. Highly-efficient sol-voltaic(meaning a combination of photo- and thermo-voltaic that relies on sun/star light), well protected fusion generators, the fuel-less zero-point energy generators, and even coal power plants would be preferred. Coal plants don't explode if someone trips the wrong breaker.]

[But I do still like the idea. It'd probably have a fusion plant attached to kickstart the particle accelerator, which would create antimatter which would be annihilated as soon as it was created to prevent a buildup. The net gain comes from the fact that creating the anti-matter takes energy, but maybe 120% of the energy that is released by the anti-particle, and the energy comes from the annihilation of the normal particle. Safety measures would try to ensure that you know, people didn't explode just for existing near it. Gravity fields would be a requirement, the particle accelerator would have to be able to shut down at a moment's notice to prevent creating anti-matter when the energy can't be harvested.]

[I think of it like a continuous EPG]
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10ebbor10

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #197 on: July 01, 2013, 07:37:52 am »

Spoiler: Science (click to show/hide)
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #198 on: July 01, 2013, 08:04:41 am »

Hmm...if half of the energy is unuseable, generating antimatter requires that you use more energy than the energy in the antimatter, and the total energy released is equal to the energies in the antimatter and the matter...then antimatter will never be a commercial power source.
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10ebbor10

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #199 on: July 01, 2013, 08:14:25 am »

Depends. It's a very mass efficient way to store energy, and if you manage to procure antimatter without having to make it ...(Hawking rad, virtual particles)..

Of course, you could also try to catch the fast neutrons by cladding the reactor with uranium, but that's a bit redundant, isn't it.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #200 on: July 01, 2013, 08:19:08 am »

Depends. It's a very mass efficient way to store energy,
True, but that's energy storage, not an energy source.

Quote
and if you manage to procure antimatter without having to make it ...(Hawking rad, virtual particles)..
I'm not entirely sure what virtual particles are, but Hawking radiation is unpredictable and requires a black hole...and it also happens to cause the decay of smaller black holes pretty quickly, so you'd need a large one for any kind of sustained antimatter-gathering thing.

Quote
Of course, you could also try to catch the fast neutrons by cladding the reactor with uranium, but that's a bit redundant, isn't it.
Especially since I'm not sure what you would do with the nutrinos, yes.
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10ebbor10

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #201 on: July 01, 2013, 08:31:13 am »

It's complicated.

Also, I made a typo. Meant neutrinos, not neutrons.

Edit: Also, conversion is even less efficient than I originally though. Almost 74% of the energy ends up in the form of near uncatchable neutrinos, and is hence lost.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 08:33:00 am by 10ebbor10 »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #202 on: July 01, 2013, 08:35:31 am »

I knew what you meant.

And yeah, antimatter power "generation" will never be good at generating power, just storing it.

Now to read up on virtual particles!
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kahn1234

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #203 on: July 01, 2013, 10:12:32 am »

Spoiler: Science (click to show/hide)

((OOC: There is a small fusion plant in East Anglia that produces as much power as it takes in. It is what the big plant being built in France (Or Switzerland? i cant remember) is based on. It cant produce any more than it is at the moment, as it isn't large enough.

plasma and Ion based engines (in fact, any space engine that isn't chemical or solid fueled) require a hell of a lot of power. Fusion produces a hell of a lot of power. I didn't mean the reactor itself being the engine, i meant it powering the thing that is the engine, whether it be electromagnetic, plasma or ion based. Also, fission safer than fusion? Fission has a whole load of things that could go wrong with it, many of them ending in meltdown (something you REALLY dont want in space). Not to mention its fuel is radioactive in the extreme. Fusion has zero chance of meltdown, and its fuels are not radioactive (or, at least, nowhere near as radioactive as plutonium and uranium). The only fission based plants that are safe are ones based on thorium as a fuel.

Not sure where you got 'Fusion is dangerous' from. If a fusion plant went critical, the only thing that would happen is that the sphere containing the reaction would shear off all the bolts holing it stationary, fire upwards half a mile, spinning several thousand times per minute, before coming crashing down again. Nowhere near as dangerous as a fission plant or antimatter.

and, finally, there is such thing as a fusion-fission hybrid reactor. In fact, there are a few designs floating about in real life and i think one or two may have been built or are in the process of being built.))
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 10:15:05 am by kahn1234 »
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Gamerlord

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #204 on: July 01, 2013, 10:16:14 am »

[OOC: So how is the game going? And Ross (Fun fact, I can't help but think of you as looking like the guy from criminal minds  :P) are you going to make a 'Beta Party' like in the adventurer game or like a HQ we can dick around in or what?]

Alexandria

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #205 on: July 01, 2013, 10:18:38 am »

(( I think we need to make the HQ ourselves, which requires us to find a good place and gather up more survivors first. ))
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Gamerlord

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #206 on: July 01, 2013, 10:32:49 am »

[Right. Hurry up then, daddy wants to kick back and slack off while you guys do all the work!  ;D]

kahn1234

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #207 on: July 01, 2013, 11:27:24 am »

((Typical man. sitting back and relaxing whilst us women do all the work ;) ))

kj1225

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #208 on: July 01, 2013, 11:31:14 am »

[I'm a man...  :'(]
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Rolepgeek

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Re: The 1st Punitive Mars Expedition: Destination Unknown [WL:4/6]
« Reply #209 on: July 01, 2013, 11:37:22 am »

On Antimatter plants: My apologies. I thought it was slightly less than 50% that was neutrinos. So yeah, the only way to do that would be with an antimatter factory or some shit that made in large quantities to be more efficient(as in breaking physics efficiency), and that would be a bit, you know. Dangerous in that you are an explosive material. So is that NBC suit.

Speaking of NBC, what's the nanotech level in this game? Considering we have shields on our armor and assembler stuff that can make food, ammunition, or vehicles from the same basic stuff, I'd expect pretty advanced.

I want a nano-bomb. All of the nanobots, tearing whatever they find into little pieces and making more of themselves. How's this for a best case scenario; we make a doomsday weapon, we fight our way to the queen or something(most of us would die on the way, of course), and then we set it off. Antimatter bomb, nano-replicators, even just a virus that the Kai have no immunity to.
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