Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gitsnak]

This is a first time post, so sorry if what I write doesn't sound fun.

I was reading Berserk the other day and got to thinking about weapons or armor gaining some level of sentience/magic power purely through extensive use over very long periods of time.  For example if you have killed many evil creatures with a weapon it starts to have some level of bloodlust that maybe causes it to be more effective, but also has negative effects on the wielded over long periods.  I don't really have it fleshed out in my head, but I thought it sounded like a neat way to get special items over a significant period of time so as not to be too common or overpowered.

What does everyone think?

[Matoro]

Something like this would be awesome. This reminds me from the Silmarillion and tale of Túrin Túrambar and his epic talking sword.

Maybe those swords could be artifacts created by the gods, like the slabs of the life and death. During world gen daring adventurers would try to find the sword and use it. Maybe those artifact weapons would be very dangerous for their wielder but absurdly effective in a combat. One kind of curse - not like the mummy curse, which makes you very unneffective in the battle. More liek curse that doesen't harm you at first, but it harms all you care about: your companions and the hamlet you're living and in dwarf mode friends and relatives. That sword from the gods may curse everything the hero has ever cared about. Tale will probably end with the hero going mad from grief (yeah, berserk dwarf with übersword, what now?) or killing himself with that sword...

[Repseki]

Urist McDwaryname has been found dead in his room! His mighty sword impaled through him and his guts strewn across the floor! The sword resonates as if calling for someone to wield it in brutal combat!

I have a feeling one would likely want a regularly scheduled sacrifice available for such a weapon to slow the negative side effects. Having a way of upping the required bloodshed over time would be even better, although probably somewhat difficult to get working.

[Gitsnak]

You could make it so there is a random chance that a master crafted or artifact weapon even has the capacity to become enhanced and then only make it happen over many years of use.  I think armor like this would also be neat.  I am not a fan of overt magic but I think having items so well made that they take on their own personality sounds interesting.  Not all would need to have massive drawbacks and maybe strong willed dwarves could forge some sort of working relationship with the item.  It is gettin more complex as I think about it, but it sounds fun and flavorful to me.

[Gargomaxthalus]

You could make it so there is a random chance that a master crafted or artifact weapon even has the capacity to become enhanced and then only make it happen over many years of use.  I think armor like this would also be neat.  I am not a fan of overt magic but I think having items so well made that they take on their own personality sounds interesting.  Not all would need to have massive drawbacks and maybe strong willed dwarves could forge some sort of working relationship with the item.  It is gettin more complex as I think about it, but it sounds fun and flavorful to me.

This is how items tend to gain sentience in various stories from around the world from the DnD swords like Cutter, to Japanese tales of prized possessions becoming Tanuki. A sentient weapon wouldn't appear until you get at least 500 years of history generated and it would be tied to several major historical events. Imagine a thousand year old Vampire using the some sword for that entire period, eventually having it become a vile blade that curses all others who wield it. Perhaps such a sword would actually end up absorbing the Vampire's soul causing you to end up with a Vampire King by proxy tnrough a Dwarf with no one being the wiser. This sort of mechanic has massive potential for all sorts of FUN.

[Gitsnak]

Thanks for the positive feedback. 

I just keep thinking that any method in which you could choose to make magic items cheapens them.  If I could make magic weapons then everyone in my military would have one and it just would be another step instead of something more fun and interesting. 

500 years sounded like a lot when I first read it since I was thinking of something you could do in your fort if it was quite old (100 years or so) but there is a lot of room for variance and levels of power. 

[Thuellai]

I like it.

I think the Japanese legend speaks to items used by several generations, so while 500 might be a bit excessive, something like 200 years would be a reasonable amount of time.  Perhaps time OR kills could be a factor - dorfs sometimes name weapons they've earned a lot of kills with, right?  Perhaps gaining a name could activate a minor effect of some kind on the weapon, and as a weapon accumulates kills and names it begins to take on more effects.

[Matoro]

"Magical" things in DF have their roots in the actions of the gods - necromancy slabs are mady by gods, curses are given by gods. I thin that player shouldn't be able to build anything such legendary. Those weapons would be created in the mists of time or as a artifacts. Any ability to make one will cheapen them and whole magic system. If the player could make a magical sword, why he couldn't make a magical slab too?

[Sirbug]

"Magical" things in DF have their roots in the actions of the gods - necromancy slabs are mady by gods, curses are given by gods. I thin that player shouldn't be able to build anything such legendary. Those weapons would be created in the mists of time or as a artifacts. Any ability to make one will cheapen them and whole magic system. If the player could make a magical sword, why he couldn't make a magical slab too?

I'd agree with that. Magic weapon should be given to mortal by gods. I kinda would want some adventurers to break into my fortress with their god-given flaming sword and loot it.

[Gitsnak]

I wasn't proposing that you should be able to make the item, rather that some level of sentience is passed on through the souls impacted by the item.  I completely agree that being able to just choose to make a magic item cheapens it.

Magic isn't exactly what I was invisioning. It was more the creation of an awareness. I definately understand hesitation to implement these types of items, I just thought they would be neat.

[furuka]

I really like this idea. The sentience implies personality which may also implies preference, as some have suggested.

While I agree it shouldn't be something industrial, I think perhaps a player in adventurer mode should be able to make one by, for example, deliberately imprisoning a demon inside his axe, and the demon, being a demon, can benefit or harm/inconvenience the wielder based on the actions s/he performs.

For example, if you trap a demon in an axe, the demon may enjoy a good elf slaughter and enhance the blade with whichever powers he once wielded, be it fiery, blistery, or chillingly goodness (badness). Such a demon would likely be imprisoned in the axe by force and submission and some trapping mechanic. On the other hand, it may be a deal was struck with the demon, or he was tricked into voluntary imprisonment.

Similarly, a force of good may be invited into the weapon by some deal or other. If you kill bad guys, you gain ++, if you kill good guys, the blade becomes unwieldable or something.


On the other side of things, it may be that an already exceptional item simply awakens to sentience by divine endowment or unconventional circumstance. Perhaps a preposterously long life of killing goblins, as was suggested, might realize it's "purpose" and waken to a personality which develops thereafter in accordance with its wielder and the actions in which it is involved.

I like Gitsnak's notion that the souls which pass through the item impact it, so that it may be corrupted or gain power by, say, resting tenderly in the heart of a dragon in its death throes, as it thrashes wildly, as its blood pools and drains away, as it shudders finally with a hateful snarl as a snide dwarf gloats over (under) and leaves the body to rot, festering in its hate and anger, pouring its soul into the blade of its demise so that it may one day be be used against the tiny horrible creatures. Perished but immortalized.
(blade causes unhappy thoughts if the wielder is a dwarf, and also burns the wielder's hands with dragonfire. Enjoys killing dwarfs and setting them aflame.)

edit: Actually, that's probably not what you meant. I think you mean the item has its own sentience and not any necessarily the sort of borrowed sentience of being possessed. Didn't mean to imply that what you suggested was the possession thing.

[Thuellai]

Your idea is good too, though, and I enjoyed the imagery.

I would definitely restrict it to masterwork or even artifact items, and have their effects grow over a long period of time or based on kills.

[Dwarf Kitty]

We might be able to bring this into fort mode.  The only artifacts the game currently makes in world gen are books.  What if the game creates a useful not-quite-so-ramdom artifact in worldgen and then tracks it through the years to decide on what benefits and drawbacks it confers?
 
 
Urist McFirstMiner grows attached to his favorite pick, names it StonePiercer.  With it, he becomes a Legendary Miner.  StonePiercer becomes an extension of Urist in his hands.
 
The pick gets imbued with a part of his spirit.  A bit of Urist's personality and attitude rubs off on the pick.  It doesn't hurt that Urist is a bit crazy and treats StonePiercer as a living thing.
 
Urist finally passes away.  He doesn't possess or haunt StonePiercer, but there's a certain mystical or spiritual connection to him and his talents through his pet tool.  Any miners who pick up StonePiercer learns mining a bit faster than with a fresh new pick, but also inherits Urist's reluctance to cut into marble or some other random preference.
 
StonePiercer gets passed down through the ages.  It survives through its initial superb quality and through loving repairs and sharpening.  Perhaps the naming and connection to a legend turns it into an immortal artifact.  Each Legendary Miner who wields it puts a bit of his own spirit into the pick.  Everyone adds a decorative touch or encrusted jewel.  Some wind up putting some of their personality into the pick.
 
 
Such an item would be too unique and too expensive for the embark screen, but a migrant miner might bring it with them.  Or, you buy a slightly-used pick from the traders, and some wise sage identifies it as the legendary StonePiercer.
 
StonePiercer would form a bond with a lucky miner in your fort, giving him a boost to his learning or +3 levels.  (In which case, we'd be returning to DF's roguelike roots:  StonePiercer, the +3 Pick of Mountain Carving!  Which must be first identified before unlocking its true potential.)
 
It would also have or confer some personality traits or preferences or other buffs and curses based on the experiences of the item.  Urist was a legendary comedian?  Then your present-day miner gets a few automatic levels in that as long as he possesses StonePiercer.  Urist hated rats?  Your guy might find himself suddenly hating rats.
 
 
Any item rated as personal inventory (clothing, armor, shield, weapons) would work for this.  The game starts with an ordinary item, puts it in the hands of a legendary-level character, names it, then adds decorations and spikey menaces and strength of power and personality quirks with each new owner.  A sword would be engraved and bejeweled and loaded with preferences by the time it reaches your adventurer.  There could be a few of these salted as exploration rewards for adventure mode and others given to civs to be dropped by invaders and bandits or traded or brought by dwarfy migrants in fort mode.

[Gitsnak]

I like how that sounds since it applies to more than straight combat use items. 

Like I mentioned earlier I was reading Berserk when I was considering the possibilities as varying levels of this type of effect are present in the series.  Not that I want to copy the idea completely, but I very much like that his sword has killed so many evil creatures that it has taken on semi magical properties against them and that his armor takes control of him and in return makes him extremely powerful and immune to pain... Sounds like and add for Berserk more than anything, but I like the general idea of it.

You could have a simple item that merely makes dwarves slightly better against certain monsters all the way up to powerful items that exert their will on the user. 

[Adrian]

Like this you mean?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)