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Author Topic: Iron less World  (Read 1092 times)

Kurnic

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Iron less World
« on: June 21, 2013, 08:06:10 pm »

So I genned a world with LNP that apparently has no iron. I have been unable to get any kind of iron goods from anyone, even my goblinite is copper. Its really not that big of an issue as I genned the world to play with stuff Ive never touched before, mainly marks dwarves, pottery and using something other then green glass to make everything. Whats odder still is I can get small amounts of steel from the dwarven caravan, not enough to gear up a military, its only 2 or 3 crafts per caravan, but its just very odd.
Its also the first world Ive had an age of, its the Age of the Bronze Colussus, said Colussus is a mermaid in a shell. Didnt know they could do that x.x
Now to fit this in the questions I actually had a few questions to ask =p Until now Ive never actually used marks dwarves, Ive just relied on either a dodge me trap hall or a well trained steel clad axe squad at the end of a long narrow tunnel, so is there any fun qurck to them? Like keeping the squads to 4 people max for training? How effective would a series of bunkers placed on choke points in the map be? Ive got several rivers running thru thet  map and a large valley to the north, I have bridges across the rivers to allow migrants and caravans thru and Ive been thinking of putting little 2 story castles on them to deal with sieges, the castles would be supplied by an under ground automated mine cart track. Ive built one as a test and I can easily fit 3 or 4 marks dwarves in the living quarters, is that enough to make a difference in a siege or do they need like 40 guys to do something? Keep in mind sieges would have to pass thru a tunnel 3x6 directly in front of the fortifications to actually reach my fort.
And one more question, magma cannons, whats an easy way to set one up? Ive tried I dont know how many times to do one, but never gotten it to work x.x Ive been using the diagram on the Wiki, a resevor 11x11x11 with a pump stack in hte middle square and a short tunnel to aim, and Its never worked x.x I always just get the normal flow of magma out of the thing. Yes all 12 pumps are powered, I either use a wind farm on top of the thing or a couple water reactors. Any suggestions?
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ikachan

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Re: Iron less World
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 11:59:59 pm »

Quote
Ive never actually used marks dwarves, Ive just relied on either a dodge me trap hall or a well trained steel clad axe squad at the end of a long narrow tunnel, so is there any fun qurck to them? Like keeping the squads to 4 people max for training?

What you can do is assign all your dwarves to marksmen and that means that when ever you get an attack they will be volleyed by an army of dwarves taking pot-shots at them. If you only want 4 people doing it then you'll want to only engage them when your enemy has no ranged weapons and you're on top of something so they can't get them.

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How effective would a series of bunkers placed on choke points in the map be?

Invaders will only path through somewhere if there are dwarves there so if you had some soldiers in the bunker to ambush them then maybe. I've had invasions of more than 100 gobos so if you were to lead them to different choke points for ambush then you may find that some of your soldiers are outnumbered while others at different stations may not have much or anything to fight.

Quote
Ive got several rivers running thru the  map and a large valley to the north, I have bridges across the rivers to allow migrants and caravans thru and Ive been thinking of putting little 2 story castles on them to deal with sieges, the castles would be supplied by an under ground automated mine cart track. Ive built one as a test and I can easily fit 3 or 4 marks dwarves in the living quarters, is that enough to make a difference in a siege or do they need like 40 guys to do something? Keep in mind sieges would have to pass thru a tunnel 3x6 directly in front of the fortifications to actually reach my fort.

Again, that would depend on whether or not they have range and if so, how many. I've tried using marksmen in towers before but my marksmen weren't good enough so they would get killed by any decent opposing gobo archer. You are able to retract the bridges to stop them entering but if they're riding flying creatures then they could fly over, however you've probably already killed the gobo's leader guy who trains the war animals so that's not so much a problem.

The first time I survived a decent attack was with a water trap. I had built a second path going under a river and then as the path goes directly beneath the river there would a downwards staircase leading a room 2 z-levels underneath the river. I had bridges to cover the staircases leading in and out and at the right time I would close the bridges, locking the gobos in the room. Above the room I had a store of water that had filled up during the summer. Once the gobos were trapped I would open the floor hatches in the store above them and they would drown, Then I would open thee flood gates on the side of the room and all the water would filter through the grate and into the underground farmland beneath the room.

Quote
And one more question, magma cannons, whats an easy way to set one up? Ive tried I dont know how many times to do one, but never gotten it to work x.x Ive been using the diagram on the Wiki, a resevor 11x11x11 with a pump stack in hte middle square and a short tunnel to aim, and Its never worked x.x I always just get the normal flow of magma out of the thing. Yes all 12 pumps are powered, I either use a wind farm on top of the thing or a couple water reactors. Any suggestions?

I haven't tried making a magma cannon so I can't give you many pointers there.
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Deepblade

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Re: Iron less World
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2013, 10:22:01 am »

The Magma Cannon thread should have all the pointers needed. It looks fairly straight forward with mostly a lot of pumps
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Mr. Palau

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Re: Iron less World
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 11:40:44 am »

For the marksdwarves here is what I suggest:
-Steel breastplates and helms if you can get enough steel, this won't burden them and will make them much more durable.
-Material for crossbows doesn't matter for ranged combat, but I would suggest copper or bronze because that would be more effective than wood in melee combat.
-Bolts should be made  out of higher quality material than the armor your opponents are using. I would therefore suggest bronze if the goblins are using copper.
-Buy as much tin if you do not have it.

Also, you should draft everyone into a marksdwarf squad. Or at least most people. For example, in my fort of 168 dwarves, including about 26 children, 60 dwarves are in the marksdwarf militia.

In terms of defensive preparation, you should have the goblins round the corner into a big room with all your marksdwarves in it so that the marksdwarves can pincushion them.
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crossmr

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Re: Iron less World
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 08:02:42 pm »

really over complicated.
Make a long entrance hallway
at the end put a draw bridge (that raises, not retracts)
Put channels along the entrance hallway. On the side walls carve fortifications.
When a siege shows up, retreat into the base, wait for them to start moving
once they've started pathing, they will attempt to reach their destination even if it's blocked
when they are on their way, pull the lever for the bridge.
You know have a goblin party in your entryway
surrounded by fortifications
and a bunch of marksdwarves
shoot until you are out of bolts.

Marksdwarves are an unreliable way to stop advancing squads. They may all focus fire on one guy, or something like that, leaving the rest to carry on and slaughter your fort.

However, people that have nowhere to go can easily be decimated by them. In my case, I create 1x1 pill boxes all over the map, with underground connections. Surrounded by fortifications. Regardless of skill level all my marksdwarves can stand in these and fire at enemy squads milling around.

The only danger is elite goblin archers. They can shoot back through. regular goblins can only shoot through if they stand beside the fortification (hence the reason for channels)

If you see an elite goblin archer and you can't safely shoot the other goblins , just wait them out. Even if you have 50 legendary marksdwarves, he'll probably kill them all by the time they get around to targeting him specifically.

and any bolts are fine, just not wood. The differences are so small between the rest, it doesn't matter. I have 13000 bolts in my fort from bone to steel. I just let them choose whatever and they destroy all comers. Most goblins and things don't wear 100% metal armor, so they dwarves usually find holes, not that I've ever really noticed any kind of bolts getting regularly deflected.
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Broken

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Re: Iron less World
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2013, 03:28:33 am »

Whats odder still is I can get small amounts of steel from the dwarven caravan, not enough to gear up a military, its only 2 or 3 crafts per caravan, but its just very odd.

Is a Know bug. All civs capable of making alloys have access to them, even if they have not the base metals.
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In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
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Larix

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Re: Iron less World
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2013, 03:42:41 am »

They _could_ be importing the base materials from somewhere else, but wouldn't be willing to sell them to you because they're not 'native'. That's merely a role-playish justification, mind. Broken's right, knowing the reaction effectively gives a civ access to the alloy in question.

On extremely mineral-poor worlds, even cages will no longer be made of the standard metals (tin, zinc, lead, copper) but of some alloys - the animals they brought to my place were in lay pewter or nickel silver cages.

The best items to turn to steel are musical instruments and anvils. They give one bar each on melting and have the standard 10 base price, i.e. a no-quality one from steel will cost you 300 dwarfbucks (anvils brought by caravans are always no-quality). Weapons and armour have similar or better melting returns, but are much more expensive. And of course they could be used as bought if you don't have good smiths...
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crossmr

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Re: Iron less World
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2013, 04:21:51 am »

Whats odder still is I can get small amounts of steel from the dwarven caravan, not enough to gear up a military, its only 2 or 3 crafts per caravan, but its just very odd.

Is a Know bug. All civs capable of making alloys have access to them, even if they have not the base metals.

If that's the case, they should be able to import steel bars from the dwarven settlement as a request.

In that case I'd just request everything maximum and anything you can get steel smelt it.
I find they tend to bring lots of things in steel including wheelbarrows, cages, etc.
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