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Total Members Voted: 69

[Gnorm]

So they will move materials. They can do some things that require objects in fort mode. Will they haul?

Thus far, I've only experimented with stone, though they seem to be perfectly capable with it.

[mastahcheese]

Hmm, so they can pick things up, but they won't collect tools?

As a work-around, can you assign the picks and axes to them through the military screen and see if they will follow designations then?

[WillowLuman]

They really ought to follow orders without workarounds, though. This is a serious issue.

Wait, is it just designations? Can they do things at buildings?

[Halfling]

It's not unheard of. Check the body, that the following are in order:

- All limbs are connected and the brain exists and is connected
- Tissues have appropriate tokens
- No tissue error has caused any part to be made of nonexistent materials

Post all raws for more eyes to see. So far I would say pretty much every intractable problem with creatures has been due to silly mistakes that the creator just missed.

[WillowLuman]

Truncating the raws for easy perusal might not be best for bugfixing, after all. However, I notice it's using mostly the same body as halflings do, so I doubt it's a missing brain. Still worth checking.

[Halfling]

True. That shouldn't be it unless something is wrong with the gears. Still.

[vyznev]

Another bugfix on GitHub: humanoids no longer have two right elbows.   (I remember this was reported a long ago by someone, and I thought it had already been fixed, but apparently not.)

Also, there was a typo in the hound speech file name ("speeh" instead of "speech") causing error log noise.  I fixed that one too.

Ps. I noticed that mallards apparently have beaks instead of bills.  I know it's not technically wrong as such, it just sounds odd to my ear, kind of like speaking of a dog's feet instead of its paws.  It wouldn't be hard to fix, just make a new pair of bodyglosses and add them to the mallards.  Halfling?

[Halfling]

Thanks for the fixes and go right ahead. That's a linguistic oversight.

[vyznev]

OK, I'll do that tomorrow. BTW, I also noticed in arena testing that mallards seem to have "hair" that can be "fractured" or "shattered".     The former appears to be just a misprint in the tissue template (FEATHER_TEMPLATE_HLG has "[TISSUE_NAME:hair:STP]"), while the latter might be because both the hair and feather tissue templates seem to be using "KERATIN" instead of "HAIR" and "FEATHER" as their materials.  That looks like a bug to me too -- at least, fixing it seems to get rid of the funny combat messages.  If it's somehow intentional, though, let me know.

[Halfling]

Uh, wow. You have a good eye. I welcome these fixes.

Hair and feathers are made of keratin, but feathers should be "feathers". This affects items hypothetically made of them. But maybe it would be better for combat reports if it were a tissue more like skin so that you would "tear" it rather than "fracture" it, so if that's a change you feel is good then that's fine too.

[WillowLuman]

Made of keratin, yes, but arranged in a much different way than solid horn or nail. Right now the game treats it like very very thin, armored scutes.

[Halfling]

Not really (or at least not more than in vanilla, shouldn't be). Generic keratin tissue (for horns and bills) is shaped as a LAYER, such as armour would be. Hair is STRANDS, feathers are FEATHERS. This is the same as vanilla. Fracturing I imagine is to do with the material values.

[vyznev]

Uh, wow. You have a good eye. I welcome these fixes.

OK, done and done.

I think this change probably makes hairy/feathery creatures using these templates a bit less tough, since they no longer effectively have a layer of keratin armor around them.  The HAIR and FEATHER templates seem to have the same physical values as skin (and they do have comments suggesting that this is deliberate).

BTW, does anyone know of a way to give a creature an (almost) completely harmless attack, or, alternatively, to keep them from attacking at all (even as counterattacks)?  I've tried [ATTACK_VELOCITY_MODIFIER:1], which does seem to make a difference, but they still occasionally manage to sever nerves or arteries with lucky hits.  Or do the creatures I've been testing them against (hounds and mallards, mostly) just have their nerves and arteries somehow really exposed?

[Halfling]

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:HAIR_TEMPLATE_HLG] Hair and feathers are both made of keratin, sure, but the layer should not be more protective than skin.

Ha ha oh wow. I had forgotten what I wrote already.

Well, good thing it's restored to how it was intended.

You could try giving them a tiny body part made of marshmallow and making them attack with that as their main, but I'm not sure. Even creatures that can only push can be mighty deadly in DF in general.

If they're not supposed to succeed at anything you could make them curse themselves to fail at everything 100% of the time, including combat, probably; and if they're not supposed to do anything they can paralyze or knock unconscious themselves.

[Lost in Nowhere]

I guess I'll skip my turn and maybe do one later.