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Total Members Voted: 69

[Putnam]

There's a lot of this:

Code: [Select]

[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:APPEARANCE_VARIABILITY_BODYSIZE_HLG]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:APPEARANCE_VARIABILITY_HEAD_HAIR_HLG]
with no [APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION] around. In my experience, that usually crashes the game, so it's kind of odd that it doesn't seem to have too many adverse affects here.

[vyznev]

Wait, what does [APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION] actually even do?   I mean, besides demonstrating that my modding skills are way rustier than I thought...

[Putnam]

APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION loads the creature variation; APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION actually puts it into the creature.

[StLeibowitz]

Well, the variations seem to be applied in the creature perfectly fine as it stands. From the text of it, [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:blahblah] sounds like it both identifies and applies the variation to the creature, which would make APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION a bit redundant. Maybe it's a relic, like UNDERSWIM?

[Putnam]

Strange, since, again, my experience with having APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION with no APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION causes crashing.

Besides, there are very good reasons to have the two separate tokens:

Code: [Select]

[COPY_TAGS_FROM:HALFLING_HLG]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:SPECIALBEAST_VARIATION_PUTNAM]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:MALE]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:FEMALE]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:CREATURE_CLASS]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:NATURAL_SKILL]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:CASTE]
[CV_CONVERT_TAG]
[CVCT_MASTER:ATTACK_VELOCITY_MODIFIER]
[CVCT_TARGET:300]
[CVCT_REPLACEMENT:5000]
[CVCT_TARGET:600]
[CVCT_REPLACEMENT:10000]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
Here, I copy from HALFLING_HLG, load SPECIALBEAST_VARIATION_PUTNAM, then I add a few things to SPECIALBEAST_VARIATION_PUTNAM that relate specifically to elements of balance. If APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION were a relic, that wouldn't work, but it does.

[StLeibowitz]

Huh. Maybe that's it's function then 

I'm not going to question it too deeply. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as the adage goes.

[Halfling]

Since this appears to work, I didn't question it either. APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION should read LOAD_CREATURE_VARIATION if it only works for reading data from other raws and not applying it to the creature. However... if you feel like this should be fixed for security, go right ahead.

@Hugo: strand extraction is used to extract celestium strands, but that's irrelevant as they still won't do it.

The social skills idea is interesting, but is it enough? Mamaphints can be so common, and I'd like them to not become mayors too often. It's funny if it happens sometimes, like once a thousand games, "this elephant is so great (not that he can speak) that we decided to make him our mayor", but if it has a significant chance of happening it's just stupid. Also it removes the whole mayors make mandates yet are needed to run your village thing. And if there's more intelligent pets coming, they all need the fix so politics doesn't look like a zoo where it's occasionally a bear that's the mayor and occasionally some kind of smart octopus or killer whale with legs.

At least for halflings, the mayoral position could very well have
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:HALFLING_HLG:FEMALE][ALLOWED_CREATURE:HALFLING_HLG:MALE]

[WillowLuman]

I've had several Mamaphints for years in Oceanbrave, and not one of them has been elected mayor. I think the job either goes to whoever has the most friends, or whoever has highest in certain skills. If you prevent Mamaphints from raising those skills, it stands a good chance of either directly preventing their mayorship or at least stopping them from making so many friends.

[Halfling]

To make a conclusion of whether it happens 1/1000 (acceptable) or 5/100 (unacceptable) we'd need a hundred forts' data. As it is it's theory.

Oh hey. Do they show up on halflings' list of friends? Do they get thoughts about losing friends when those dies? Because that's really... another thing. Do they qualify as sapients for ethics?

Seriously I think this is WAY too much trouble for what sackhead wanted as an easter egg: that a mamaphint could wrestle an enemy's weapon away with its trunk and then learn to use it. That would have been achievable with just natural skill in wrestling and natural skill in all weapons.

[WillowLuman]

Natural skill in all weapons would have other unfortunate effects. Just make them unable to learn any social skills, and they will NEVER become mayor.

They don't have a "friends" list or bad thoughts, but they do show up in others friends lists (indicating how many they have) and citizens do get "lost a friend" thoughts when they die. This is going of Tigermen, but it works the same.

[Halfling]

Which other effects? It's also dumb you could get tantrums from losing mamaphints but not so much from pets.

[WillowLuman]

Not that dumb, since they're mentally equivalent to the citizens (but can't do jobs without DFhack). Remember, they will make very few friends without social skills, and Mamaphints are hard to lose.

[Halfling]

Yeah but I'm not sure mamaphints being sapients that make friends and people refuse to butcher was intended and not accident

[Dorsidwarf]

It should be intended, at least. It's no different to the Beastmen pets the elves occasionally bring - fully sentient, but don't do any jobs due to how df works, so they laze around making friends slowly. Expect any long-term fortress to have a mamas hint mayor.



It isn't that ridiculous - one local council was defeated in the elections... By a pet cat.

[Halfling]

Oh come on. These aren't mamaphint men. They shouldn't be people-level intelligent any more than anything else. I mean you could argue hounds should be intelligent, as in have civilian professions and be eligible in elections, then, because they can learn tricks and form relationships. And even the mamaphint description says you're supposed to eat them, not make them your mayor.

I'll just PM sackhead about this.

If we don't get a response in time, before you upload Putnam, suggest push: social skills fix (mamaphint aptitudes for social skills minimal or overflown to negative if possible) and halfling mayoral position limited to halflings only. Other races can still have inevitable mamaphint nobles such as as a formic regent.