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Total Members Voted: 69

[Dorsidwarf]

Whoa! Just got the notification that one of my Halfling Children had grown into a peasant.
Then two ticks later he was found dead.
Theres a massive mess in one of my corridors

[Halfling]

Well... words referring to idiocy are only roughly 2% (by line % of total lines guesstimate, and similarly small percentage by symbol since they are all in symbol UNTOWARD) of the small language, but they are memorable.

They will show up more in anything that natively uses symbol UNTOWARD. I'm still not clear on which uses what. Symbols can't be just made up - it seems like megabeasts, for example, use ASSERTIVE a lot IIRC from my testing with even smaller languages (try only adding one or two words per symbol).

Can we only make additions to this if we sign up for a modding turn? I only want to do some minor things, such as add a little variety to metals.

You're free to suggest stuff without taking a turn. That's the idea. It's up to whosever turn it is to implement it. For example it wasn't mc's turn yet but his raws giving hangovers from alcohols were immediately added by Leibowitz. It should probably be more visible in the first post but I'm not sure how I could make it more concise, it just has such a lot of stuff that needs to be there. Fakeedit - ninja'd

(Pretty sure we have 0 types of clay. Of course if we can't redesign clay enough for it to be considered from scratch, so be it. I'm almost certain that's what's causing the ground to think it's everything sometimes though)

Unlikely. There's no special tag for soil about being clay. Vanilla clay is just a soil with [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE] - I don't believe reaction products affect where something should be placed in worldgen. That said, who knows for sure? But we did have BFEL's vanilla ripoff "clay" for a while and I think there were those small spots even then.

It could be something like, DF wants to make the very bottom of a different material than some other layers, this is not possible due to there being only "rock" and that affects the surface in places. Or it could be something very simple we've overlooked so far. Incidentally, I did a little embarking on suspected problem areas (river deltas), and they were surprisingly made entirely of rock in fort mode, even the surface. Todo: confirm one is a problem area in adv mode, then embark on that exact spot and see if DF setting the deeper materials in fort mode fixes it.

Underground vegetation was improved a lot by Leibowitz. But yeah, more stone, more metals, please. More everything would be nice but those are probably a priority.

[laularukyrumo]

Here's some things I think we need more of: Sand/Soil/Clay ... Stone ... and metal[/size].

more stone, more metals, please. More everything would be nice but those are probably a priority.

Huh. I keep saying that my entire turn is focusing on inorganics. Weird. >.>

[Dorsidwarf]

Basic stuff, but variety is variety, and this is the first time I've ever even LOOKED at the df files.

Code: [Select]

[OBJECT:INORGANIC]


[INORGANIC:BLUESTEEL_DSD]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE_HLG]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:bluesteel]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten bluesteel]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:gaseous bluesteel]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:7:8:2]
[BUILD_COLOR:7:8:2]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:10]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR]
[ITEMS_HARD][ITEMS_METAL]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:AZURE]

[INORGANIC:BLUESTEEL_ORE_1_DSD]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE_HLG]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:7:2][TILE:'*']
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:shimmerrock]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten shimmerrock]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:shimmerock dust]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:ROCK_HLG:CLUSTER:100]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
[METAL_ORE:METEORIC_IRON_HLG:100]
[SOLID_DENSITY:52000]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:5]
[IS_STONE]
[MELTING_POINT:11500]

[INORGANIC:JAGGED_SAND_DSD]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE_HLG]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:BUFF]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:jagged sand]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:n/a]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:airborne jagged sand]
[TILE:178][DISPLAY_COLOR:7:12:0]
[SOIL_SAND]

[Halfling]

Here's some things I think we need more of: Sand/Soil/Clay ... Stone ... and metal[/size].

more stone, more metals, please. More everything would be nice but those are probably a priority.

Huh. I keep saying that my entire turn is focusing on inorganics. Weird. >.>

Sorry. I was thinking of what already is there, forgetting you're already working to fix our problems. But more suggestions aren't bad, are they?

Basic stuff, but variety is variety, and this is the first time I've ever even LOOKED at the df files.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[OBJECT:INORGANIC]


[INORGANIC:BLUESTEEL_DSD]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE_HLG]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:bluesteel]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten bluesteel]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:gaseous bluesteel]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:7:8:2]
[BUILD_COLOR:7:8:2]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:10]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR]
[ITEMS_HARD][ITEMS_METAL]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:AZURE]

[INORGANIC:BLUESTEEL_ORE_1_DSD]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE_HLG]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:7:2][TILE:'*']
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:shimmerrock]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten shimmerrock]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:shimmerock dust]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:ROCK_HLG:CLUSTER:100]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
[METAL_ORE:METEORIC_IRON_HLG:100]
[SOLID_DENSITY:52000]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:5]
[IS_STONE]
[MELTING_POINT:11500]

[INORGANIC:JAGGED_SAND_DSD]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE_HLG]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:BUFF]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:jagged sand]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:n/a]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:airborne jagged sand]
[TILE:178][DISPLAY_COLOR:7:12:0]
[SOIL_SAND]

That was fast. However, it might be good if new metals also had different values otherwise from the already existing ones to not just create renames.

[Dorsidwarf]

I dont know how to give it different properties without making a whole new template, though.

[Knight Otu]

They will show up more in anything that natively uses symbol UNTOWARD. I'm still not clear on which uses what. Symbols can't be just made up - it seems like megabeasts, for example, use ASSERTIVE a lot IIRC from my testing with even smaller languages (try only adding one or two words per symbol).

Creature/deity naming depends heavily on the spheres the creature has - vanilla dragons get names with words drawn from the FIRE and WEALTH symbols, as fitting for a creature with the FIRE and WEALTH spheres. Your storm dragons do seem to love the NATURE symbol, and they are associated with the NATURE sphere and some of its children. Of course not all spheres have symbols associated to them, and I don't think you can associate your custom symbols with spheres of the same name. Haven't really tried that, though. (The UNTOWARD symbol doesn't exist in vanilla anymore, by the way.)

[Halfling]

Thanks for the correction. You are indeed correct on both counts, I didn't question enough.

UNTOWARD was present in .31 but shows up in neither the wiki's nor my own .34 stringdump. Is there a list of valid symbols in .34? I'm reading things like BOUNDARY and FESTIVAL among the symbols in the stringdump that I'm not sure whether it's a symbol or not. If it has a new set of symbols like it does, the language needs to be adjusted. Mine was erroneously based on .31, and the wiki claims it's still the same as 40d in these parts which is apparently not true.

Nature symbols show up in storm dragon names as they should, but if you look closely they also use ASSERTIVE (lord, mean, gall, mighty, brave) and SAVAGE a lot. However, this MUST come from one of the spheres (hunting, day, nature, freedom, sky, storms) because deleting all those also makes them not use ASSERTIVE and SAVAGE excessively, instead seemingly going to all random names.

Now it's a matter of figuring which symbol corresponds to which sphere

[WillowLuman]

Symbols CAN just be made up, they're defined in the RAWs. I think spheres are hardcoded, though.

[Knight Otu]

As a guess, assertive could relate to freedom, and savage from storms, but that's just guessing.

Apart from UNTOWARD, no symbol has been removed from the language files, so in that regard you're good to go. You can keep it in, if you like - there's no problem with having more symbols than vanilla, if you want to use them for the SELECT_SYMBOL and SUBSELECT_SYMBOL tokens. I think NAME_BUILDING_TOMB is the only symbol that has been added in that time. The full list of vanilla symbols is this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[SYMBOL:AQUATIC]
[SYMBOL:ARTIFICE]
[SYMBOL:ASSERTIVE]
[SYMBOL:BALANCE]
[SYMBOL:BOUNDARY]
[SYMBOL:COLOR]
[SYMBOL:DANCE]
[SYMBOL:DARKNESS]
[SYMBOL:DEATH]
[SYMBOL:DOMESTIC]
[SYMBOL:EARTH]
[SYMBOL:EVIL]
[SYMBOL:FAMILY]
[SYMBOL:FESTIVAL]
[SYMBOL:FIRE]
[SYMBOL:FLOWERY]
[SYMBOL:FOOD]
[SYMBOL:FREEDOM]
[SYMBOL:GAMES]
[SYMBOL:GOOD]
[SYMBOL:HOLY]
[SYMBOL:LEADER]
[SYMBOL:LIGHT]
[SYMBOL:LUCK]
[SYMBOL:MAGIC]
[SYMBOL:MUSIC]
[SYMBOL:MYSTERY]
[SYMBOL:MYTHIC]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BATTLE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BRIDGE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BUILDING_KEEP]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BUILDING_TEMPLE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BUILDING_TOMB]
[SYMBOL:NAME_CAVE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_COMMON_RELIGION]
[SYMBOL:NAME_CONTINENT]
[SYMBOL:NAME_DESERT]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ENTITY_KINGDOM]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ENTITY_TOWN_FOUNDER]
[SYMBOL:NAME_FOREST]
[SYMBOL:NAME_GLACIER]
[SYMBOL:NAME_GRASSLAND]
[SYMBOL:NAME_HILLS]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ISLAND]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ISLAND_SMALL]
[SYMBOL:NAME_LAKE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_MOUNTAINS]
[SYMBOL:NAME_OCEAN]
[SYMBOL:NAME_PEAK]
[SYMBOL:NAME_REGION]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ROAD]
[SYMBOL:NAME_SIEGE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_SWAMP]
[SYMBOL:NAME_TUNDRA]
[SYMBOL:NAME_TUNNEL]
[SYMBOL:NAME_VOLCANO]
[SYMBOL:NAME_WALL]
[SYMBOL:NAME_WAR]
[SYMBOL:NATURE]
[SYMBOL:NEGATIVE]
[SYMBOL:NEGATOR]
[SYMBOL:NEW]
[SYMBOL:OLD]
[SYMBOL:ORDER]
[SYMBOL:PEACE]
[SYMBOL:PRIMITIVE]
[SYMBOL:PROTECT]
[SYMBOL:RESTRAIN]
[SYMBOL:ROMANTIC]
[SYMBOL:SILENCE]
[SYMBOL:SKY]
[SYMBOL:SUBORDINATE]
[SYMBOL:THOUGHT]
[SYMBOL:TRADE]
[SYMBOL:TRAVEL]
[SYMBOL:TRUTH]
[SYMBOL:UGLY]
[SYMBOL:VIOLENT]
[SYMBOL:WEALTH]
[SYMBOL:WILD]

[Halfling]

As a guess, assertive could relate to freedom, and savage from storms, but that's just guessing.

Apart from UNTOWARD, no symbol has been removed from the language files, so in that regard you're good to go. You can keep it in, if you like - there's no problem with having more symbols than vanilla, if you want to use them for the SELECT_SYMBOL and SUBSELECT_SYMBOL tokens. I think NAME_BUILDING_TOMB is the only symbol that has been added in that time. The full list of vanilla symbols is this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[SYMBOL:AQUATIC]
[SYMBOL:ARTIFICE]
[SYMBOL:ASSERTIVE]
[SYMBOL:BALANCE]
[SYMBOL:BOUNDARY]
[SYMBOL:COLOR]
[SYMBOL:DANCE]
[SYMBOL:DARKNESS]
[SYMBOL:DEATH]
[SYMBOL:DOMESTIC]
[SYMBOL:EARTH]
[SYMBOL:EVIL]
[SYMBOL:FAMILY]
[SYMBOL:FESTIVAL]
[SYMBOL:FIRE]
[SYMBOL:FLOWERY]
[SYMBOL:FOOD]
[SYMBOL:FREEDOM]
[SYMBOL:GAMES]
[SYMBOL:GOOD]
[SYMBOL:HOLY]
[SYMBOL:LEADER]
[SYMBOL:LIGHT]
[SYMBOL:LUCK]
[SYMBOL:MAGIC]
[SYMBOL:MUSIC]
[SYMBOL:MYSTERY]
[SYMBOL:MYTHIC]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BATTLE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BRIDGE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BUILDING_KEEP]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BUILDING_TEMPLE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_BUILDING_TOMB]
[SYMBOL:NAME_CAVE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_COMMON_RELIGION]
[SYMBOL:NAME_CONTINENT]
[SYMBOL:NAME_DESERT]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ENTITY_KINGDOM]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ENTITY_TOWN_FOUNDER]
[SYMBOL:NAME_FOREST]
[SYMBOL:NAME_GLACIER]
[SYMBOL:NAME_GRASSLAND]
[SYMBOL:NAME_HILLS]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ISLAND]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ISLAND_SMALL]
[SYMBOL:NAME_LAKE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_MOUNTAINS]
[SYMBOL:NAME_OCEAN]
[SYMBOL:NAME_PEAK]
[SYMBOL:NAME_REGION]
[SYMBOL:NAME_ROAD]
[SYMBOL:NAME_SIEGE]
[SYMBOL:NAME_SWAMP]
[SYMBOL:NAME_TUNDRA]
[SYMBOL:NAME_TUNNEL]
[SYMBOL:NAME_VOLCANO]
[SYMBOL:NAME_WALL]
[SYMBOL:NAME_WAR]
[SYMBOL:NATURE]
[SYMBOL:NEGATIVE]
[SYMBOL:NEGATOR]
[SYMBOL:NEW]
[SYMBOL:OLD]
[SYMBOL:ORDER]
[SYMBOL:PEACE]
[SYMBOL:PRIMITIVE]
[SYMBOL:PROTECT]
[SYMBOL:RESTRAIN]
[SYMBOL:ROMANTIC]
[SYMBOL:SILENCE]
[SYMBOL:SKY]
[SYMBOL:SUBORDINATE]
[SYMBOL:THOUGHT]
[SYMBOL:TRADE]
[SYMBOL:TRAVEL]
[SYMBOL:TRUTH]
[SYMBOL:UGLY]
[SYMBOL:VIOLENT]
[SYMBOL:WEALTH]
[SYMBOL:WILD]

Thanks. What's the source of that symbol list? Modding forum didn't find it.

Symbols CAN just be made up, they're defined in the RAWs. I think spheres are hardcoded, though.

Right. However the vanilla symbols are present in the DF binary and I would assume your custom symbols won't affect hardcoded things, nor will DF work correctly if your vanilla symbols are unpopulated. This is actually just guesswork though, they might be anywhere in the vanilla code and might even not be used at all, instead reading things from file, as who knows how it works.

[Knight Otu]

Thanks. What's the source of that symbol list? Modding forum didn't find it.

My vanilla DF install. I just used grep and sorted the output.

[Halfling]

Thanks. What's the source of that symbol list? Modding forum didn't find it.

My vanilla DF install. I just used grep and sorted the output.

This is the point where you tell me to RTFM but how do I just grep a binary with a string for useful output? Or was that one of the save files? Command will be fine

[Knight Otu]

Oh, not the binary, just the language_SYM file, sorry for that misunderstanding. I did

grep -e'\[SYMBOL:' language_SYM.txt > all_symbols.txt
sort all_symbols.txt > all_symbols_sorted.txt

The symbols that DF has been taught to understand would be more difficult. The string dump seems to have them in at least two parts (one including most of the NAME_* symbols, the other the MYTHIC symbol used for region naming), so I'm not sure if there are other parts, or if the lists are complete in that regard.

[Halfling]

That... would seem like the logical place to go to rather than strings > stringdump > manual search which was my MO. Oh wow. Anyway, great, thanks.