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How many want to keep this up in the next release?

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Author Topic: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.  (Read 524937 times)

WillowLuman

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #135 on: June 25, 2013, 07:24:56 pm »

Because eggs arent made of blood, bones, or muscles. They're made of eggshell and yolk. But it is a matter of preference, in this case, as is almost everything.
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BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #136 on: June 25, 2013, 07:31:32 pm »

Ok, added attacks to my treepeople.

Code: [Select]
[ATTACK:SMASH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:smash:smashes]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK:WHIP:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:whip:whips]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_VELOCITY_MODIFIER:30]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SLASH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:slash:slashes]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_VELOCITY_MODIFIER:30]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]

And that wraps up everything Treelord, now to test it all and see if they actually work :P
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #137 on: June 25, 2013, 07:33:23 pm »

Halfling, can you please tell me why you didn't import all of the words from DF, and then add your own in?  I have a utility that randomly generates a language, so that is how I noticed it (135 kb file from the two variants I was going to use for my civilization!).
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BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #138 on: June 25, 2013, 07:35:52 pm »

aaaaand trying to place a treelord in the arena crashed DF.....huh.....
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #139 on: June 25, 2013, 07:36:41 pm »

Because eggs arent made of blood, bones, or muscles. They're made of eggshell and yolk. But it is a matter of preference, in this case, as is almost everything.

True enough. Since you can't see it in any way in the game right now, I prefer to make it smaller and simpler. If you think about it more, then you might not. I don't know if it's even going to affect performance. Maybe setting all such materials that aren't really significant, like egg mats, to have a fixed temp would make the game run faster by eliminating temperature calculations, but that would violate common sense for others and lead to funny things in case of magma.

Similarly my creatures automatically clean themselves occasionally to reduce grime and lag, others might prefer to have it. We'll probably have a pastiche of different approaches here and its going to be interesting to see.

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #140 on: June 25, 2013, 07:39:59 pm »

Ok, after some science I don't know what the problem is.

However I do know that Halflings stuff doesn't crash it, the Elves don't crash it, but both genders of treelord crash DF.

FUCK
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #141 on: June 25, 2013, 07:42:07 pm »

Halfling, can you please tell me why you didn't import all of the words from DF, and then add your own in?  I have a utility that randomly generates a language, so that is how I noticed it (135 kb file from the two variants I was going to use for my civilization!).

For the same reason that I didn't import all the material and body templates from DF and then add my own. :P

It's much cooler this way. You can add your own symbols and words to mine and we'll eventually have a complete, different language and symbol set, leading to very different names as it already does... assuming nobody just copies and pastes words and symbols en masse.

Ok, after some science I don't know what the problem is. snip FUCK
Read your errorlog.txt, it's your best friend

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #142 on: June 25, 2013, 07:46:43 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ok, DF is apparently telling me I suck.
No idea which of these was ultimately fatal though.....
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #143 on: June 25, 2013, 07:55:55 pm »

That's a lot of errors. Some of them look like they are from improper usage of tokens... that's going to take a bit to fix.

It looks like your treelords actually do not have any bodies at all defined, which would probably be first on DF's hate list.

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #144 on: June 25, 2013, 07:59:26 pm »

That's a lot of errors. Some of them look like they are from improper usage of tokens... that's going to take a bit to fix.

It looks like your treelords actually do not have any bodies at all defined, which would probably be first on DF's hate list.

GODDAMMIT I THOUGHT I HAD THAT SHIT FIGURED OUT.

Code: [Select]
material_template_organic_bfel

[OBJECT:MATERIAL_TEMPLATE]

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:ELFWOOD_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:wood]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:wooden]
[STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:sap]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:sappy]
[STATE_COLOR:GAS:BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:n/a]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:n/a]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:-2]
[SPEC_HEAT:420]
[IGNITE_POINT:10458]
[MELTING_POINT:NONE]
[BOILING_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:10250]
[COLDDAM_POINT:9001]
[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:500]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:NONE]
[MOLAR_MASS:NONE]
[IMPACT_YIELD:10000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:10000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1000]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:10000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:10000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1000]
[TENSILE_YIELD:10000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:10000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1000]
[TORSION_YIELD:10000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:10000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1000]
[SHEAR_YIELD:40000] used pine
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:40000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1000]
[BENDING_YIELD:10000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:10000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1000]
[MAX_EDGE:1500]
[ABSORPTION:0]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[ITEMS_WEAPON]
[ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED]
[ITEMS_AMMO]
[ITEMS_ARMOR]
[ITEMS_SIEGE_ENGINE]
       [SYNDROME]
           [SYN_NAME:sneaky elven bastards]
           [SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:HUMANOID]
           [SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:TREELORD:ALL]
           [SYN_CONTACT]
   [SYN_INGESTED]
   [SYN_INHALED]
           [CE_BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:EAR:APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:110:PROB:100:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DILUTES:START:5:PEAK:403200:END:500000]
     [CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION:PROB:1:START:302400]
[CE:CREATURE:TREELORD:ELF]
[WOOD][HARDENS_WITH_WATER][GENERATES_MIASMA]
[REACTION_CLASS:REFINE_WOOD][BLOCK_NAME:plank:planks]

Code: [Select]
body_bfel

[OBJECT:BODY]

[BODY:SEA_ANGEL]
[BP:UB:upper body:upper bodies][UPPERBODY][HEAD][THOUGHT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:2000]
[BP:LB:lower body:lower bodies][CON:UB][LOWERBODY]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:RW:right wing:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][RIGHT][FLIER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:750]
[BP:LW:left wing:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][LEFT][FLIER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:750]
[BP:ORG:organ bundle:STP][CON:UB][INTERNAL][GUTS][BREATHE][UNDER_PRESSURE]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:TL:tail:STP][CON:LB][GRASP]


[BODY:CLAYMAN]
[BP:UB:upper body:upper bodies][UPPERBODY][CONNECTOR][NERVOUS]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:3000]
[BP:LB:lower body:lower bodies][LOWERBODY]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]

[BODY:CLAYMAN_LIMBS]
[BP:RA:right arm:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][LIMB][RIGHT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:LA:left arm:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][LIMB][LEFT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:RH:right hand:STP][CON:RA][GRASP][RIGHT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:LH:left hand:STP][CON:LA][GRASP][LEFT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:RL:right leg:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][LIMB][RIGHT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:LL:left leg:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][LIMB][LEFT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:RF:right foot:right feet][CON:RL][STANCE][RIGHT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:LF:left foot:left feet][CON:LL][STANCE][LEFT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]

[BODY:CLAYMAN_HEAD]
[BP:HE:head:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][HEAD]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]

[BODY:TREELORD]
[BP:TRU:trunk:STP][UPPERBODY][LOWERBODY][HEAD][THOUGHT][CONNECTOR][CATEGORY:TRUNK]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:6000]

[BODY:TREELORD_BRANCHES]
[BP:RBR:right branch:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][DIGIT][RIGHT][NUMBER:10][CATEGORY:BRANCH]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:4000]
[BP:RBR:right branch:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][DIGIT][RIGHT][NUMBER:10][CATEGORY:BRANCH]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:4000]
[BP:RBR:right branch:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][DIGIT][RIGHT][NUMBER:10][CATEGORY:BRANCH]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:4000]
[BP:LBR:left branch:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][DIGIT][LEFT][NUMBER:10][CATEGORY:BRANCH]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:4000]
[BP:LBR:left branch:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][DIGIT][LEFT][NUMBER:10][CATEGORY:BRANCH]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:4000]
[BP:LBR:left branch:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][DIGIT][LEFT][NUMBER:10][CATEGORY:BRANCH]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:4000]

[BODY:TREELORD_ROOTS]
[BP:RRT:right root:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][STANCE][NUMBER:3][CIRCULATION][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ROOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:RRT:right root:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][STANCE][NUMBER:3][CIRCULATION][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ROOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:LRT:left root:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][STANCE][NUMBER:3][CIRCULATION][LEFT][CATEGORY:ROOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:LRT:left root:STP][CONTYPE:LOWERBODY][STANCE][NUMBER:3][CIRCULATION][LEFT][CATEGORY:ROOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]

[BODY:TREELORD_VEG]
[BP:LVS:leaf:leaves][CON_CAT:BRANCH][BREATHE][EMBEDDED][NUMBER:2000][SMALL][SOCKET][CATEGORY:LEAF]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:50]
[BP:RVN:right vine:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][LIMB][GRASP][NUMBER:5][INTERNAL][RIGHT][CATEGORY:VINE]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:RVN:right vine:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][LIMB][GRASP][NUMBER:5][INTERNAL][RIGHT][CATEGORY:VINE]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:LVN:left vine:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][LIMB][GRASP][NUMBER:5][INTERNAL][LEFT][CATEGORY:VINE]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:LVN:left vine:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][LIMB][GRASP][NUMBER:5][INTERNAL][LEFT][CATEGORY:VINE]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]

Code: [Select]
tissue_template_bfel

[OBJECT:TISSUE_TEMPLATE]

[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:BARK_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[TISSUE_NAME:bark:bark]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:ELFWOOD_TEMPLATE_BFEL:BARK]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:5]
[HEALING_RATE:1000]
[VASCULAR:1]
[PAIN_RECEPTORS:2]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:SOLID]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[THICKENS_ON_ENERGY_STORAGE]

[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:SAP_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[TISSUE_NAME:sap:sap]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:ELFWOOD_TEMPLATE_BFEL:SAP]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:1]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:LIQUID]
[INSULATION:40]
[TISSUE_LEAKS]

[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:VINE:VINE_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[TISSUE_NAME:vine:STP]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:PLANT_STRUCTURE_HLG:VINE]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:2]
[HEALING_RATE:30]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:STRANDS]
[PAIN_RECEPTORS:4]
[THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH]
[MUSCULAR]

[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:LEAF:LEAF_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[TISSUE_NAME:leaf:leaves]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:PLANT_STRUCTURE_HLG:LEAF]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:1]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[SUBORDINATE_TO_TISSUE:BARK]

Code: [Select]
b_detail_plan_bfel


[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:PLANT_MATERIALS_BFEL]
[ADD_MATERIAL:PLANT_STRUCTURE_HLG]
[ADD_MATERIAL:ELFWOOD_TEMPLATE_BFEL]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:PLANT_TISSUES_BFEL]
[ADD_TISSUE:BARK_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[ADD_TISSUE:SAP_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[ADD_TISSUE:VINE_TEMPLATE_BFEL]
[ADD_TISSUE:LEAF_TEMPLATE_BFEL]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:PLANT_LAYERS_BFEL]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:TRUNK:BARK:100:SAP:30:BARK:10]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:BRANCH:SAP:10:BARK:35]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:ROOT:BARK:50:SAP:20:BARK:10]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:LEAF:SAP:1:LEAF:3]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:VINE:SAP:2:VINE:10]

[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:ROOT:BOTTOM]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:TRUNK:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:ROOT]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:VINE:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TRUNK:30]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:BRANCH:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:TRUNK]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:BRANCH:SURROUNDED_BY:BY_CATEGORY:LEAF]

Any ideas as to where this broke down?
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #145 on: June 25, 2013, 08:11:30 pm »

snip

There may be more errors in there, but one that jumps to the eye is [TISSUE_MATERIAL:ELFWOOD_TEMPLATE_BFEL:BARK]. That's just not how you define a material for a tissue. You can either first add BARK material to the creature with a body detail plan (like ... ADD_MATERIAL:BARK:PLANT_STRUCTURE_HLG) and then make the tissue use that (TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BARK), or add a new material like INORGANIC:BARK_BFEL and use TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:BARK_BFEL.

This is going to sound stupid but you may want to check the wiki a bit with these tags that it's giving you alerts about, for example the TISSUE_MATERIAL entry has a link under "arguments" that shows you how you can use it. A lot of them sound, from the alerts, like they're just typed in a way that DF doesn't understand.

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #146 on: June 25, 2013, 08:19:19 pm »

garg
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2013, 08:34:12 pm »

It's much cooler this way. You can add your own symbols and words to mine and we'll eventually have a complete, different language and symbol set, leading to very different names as it already does... assuming nobody just copies and pastes words and symbols en masse.

It may be cool, but it isn't as practical as modifying the files would probably have been a better idea, because if someone creates a custom language for their creatures, then when more words are added, that file wouldn't be, and with the current version, there is barely anything to build a language around, unless someone dedicates a major amount of time to put in all of the words.  If someone covers their bases and adds words that are yet to be implemented without the copy-paste, then there will be a large errorlog.txt each time.
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BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #148 on: June 25, 2013, 08:40:56 pm »

Well I've had enough disappoint for today.
I'll try and figure out all the crap I did wrong tomorrow....or something.......anyone wanna fix things for me? :P yeah didn't think so
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #149 on: June 25, 2013, 08:53:11 pm »

It's much cooler this way. You can add your own symbols and words to mine and we'll eventually have a complete, different language and symbol set, leading to very different names as it already does... assuming nobody just copies and pastes words and symbols en masse.

It may be cool, but it isn't as practical as modifying the files would probably have been a better idea, because if someone creates a custom language for their creatures, then when more words are added, that file wouldn't be, and with the current version, there is barely anything to build a language around, unless someone dedicates a major amount of time to put in all of the words.  If someone covers their bases and adds words that are yet to be implemented without the copy-paste, then there will be a large errorlog.txt each time.

Mm. Thing is, starting from a modified vanilla file wouldn't actually help it... we would have the same problem anyway, even if we kept the vanilla language file and only added to it. If people add new word definitions (and I would prefer that), those words become part of ALL languages immediately. Then translations for them must be added to any language (translation) that exists regardless of whether it's based on the vanilla files or scratch, or it will start looking glitchy. Random language gen utilities would be equally useless as the new words would have to be manually added to any randomly generated language too. The only difference would be that we would also have the vanilla words drowning out all our own words like vanilla creatures would bury our creatures under their sheer numbers if they were there.

The only way to completely avoid the problem would be to freeze language from the start and not let people add words, but that's just so limiting. For example expanding the NATURE symbol with your new creatures is just good all around.

What to do? I'm thinking could add a rule stating that if you add a word definition, add a translation for it to existing languages. It's simple as copying and pasting it into form T_WORD:WORD_ID:translation into that language's file. That means languages will eventually contain words added by many people, but doesn't add any constraining limits.
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