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How many want to keep this up in the next release?

Me
- 16 (22.9%)
Me!
- 54 (77.1%)

Total Members Voted: 69


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Author Topic: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.  (Read 524415 times)

Poldon

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #75 on: June 24, 2013, 02:18:07 pm »

I downloaded and started playing the first version just for fun.

For some reason "Meteoric Iron! Praise the miners!" really cracked me up.

I probably will have fun just playing each iteration as it comes up on the side, since I don't have much confidence in my ability to either play in a timely fashion or to actually make a decent write-up.
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #76 on: June 24, 2013, 02:25:24 pm »

Glad you're enjoying it. You should dig that meteoric iron and see what happens. I actually didn't try that yet. There are currently no clowns in the world even if you enabled them in worldgen, so who knows?

Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #77 on: June 24, 2013, 03:02:43 pm »

-snip-

Current Progress and Plans
I've already ripped out the body parts from vanilla's body_default, and my mod's body_dragonic_civilization, and cobbled the parts together in the file so that if anyone wants to define their own creatures using the dragon template, all they need to do is use [Body:Dragon_Ztg] since I put everything into that.

I've also defined one creature from a rip of the dragons from vanilla, and have modified it into a [pet] creature that may be worse than cats, because of its [Mischievous], [Curiousbeast_item], [Curiousbeast_Eater], and [Adopts_Owner] tags.

I've got some more creature additions planned, but I am keeping those under wraps to be discovered.

I'm probably going to make my civilization additions will be various forms of dragon humanoids (nonplayable), and those whom are against them and kidnap various civilized creatures to help in the fight (playable).

The second civilization will have access to an interaction that modifies the meteoric iron into a metal that is stronger against the dragon humanoids and dragons I am adding, when another metal I will add is forged with it.

-more will be added as I come up with it-

Edit: Why is there a question mark next to my name on the turn list?   ???
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 03:15:05 pm by Zanzetkuken The Great »
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #78 on: June 24, 2013, 03:14:55 pm »

-snip-

Current Progress and Plans
I've already ripped out the body parts from vanilla's body_default, and my mod's body_dragonic_civilization, and cobbled the parts together in the file so that if anyone wants to define their own creatures using the dragon template, all they need to do is use [Body:Dragon_Ztg] since I put everything into that.

I've also defined one creature from a rip of the dragons from vanilla, and have modified it into a [pet] creature that may be worse than cats, because of its [Mischievous], [Curiousbeast_item], [Curiousbeast_Eater], and [Adopts_Owner] tags.

I've got some more creature additions planned, but I am keeping those under wraps to be discovered.

I'm probably going to make my civilization additions will be various forms of dragon humanoids (nonplayable), and those whom are against them and kidnap various civilized creatures to help in the fight (playable).

The second civilization will have access to an interaction that modifies the meteoric iron into a metal that is stronger against the dragon humanoids and dragons I am adding, when another metal I will add is forged with it.

-more will be added as I come up with it-

Cool additions but ripping bodies and creatures from vanilla, or a mod that's already out, kind of breaks the "from scratch" thing that's supposed to be going on and breaks the rules. Sorry to rain on your parade. The goal ITT is to make something new entirely.

Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #79 on: June 24, 2013, 03:26:29 pm »

Cool additions but ripping bodies and creatures from vanilla, or a mod that's already out, kind of breaks the "from scratch" thing that's supposed to be going on and breaks the rules. Sorry to rain on your parade. The goal ITT is to make something new entirely.

I'm only doing that to save time, because I am working at my neighbors house a few hours out of the day, learning java, and having to read a book over the summer for a class at my school.  I could type up everything, but it would wind up exactly the same.  If you still want me to type it in manually, then I will, but I would rather perform a rip and modify to save time.
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<DozebomLolumzalis> you filthy god-damn ninja wizard dragon

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #80 on: June 24, 2013, 03:37:03 pm »

Cool additions but ripping bodies and creatures from vanilla, or a mod that's already out, kind of breaks the "from scratch" thing that's supposed to be going on and breaks the rules. Sorry to rain on your parade. The goal ITT is to make something new entirely.

I'm only doing that to save time, because I am working at my neighbors house a few hours out of the day, learning java, and having to read a book over the summer for a class at my school.  I could type up everything, but it would wind up exactly the same.  If you still want me to type it in manually, then I will, but I would rather perform a rip and modify to save time.

I think Halfling is just concerned because you made it sound like you were outright copying things, which you seem to be doing what I do, which is to use the ripped raws as a baseline with which to edit into unrecognizability.


In modding news, I have made my first stone, it should cause the suicide rate in OCD people to increase dramatically:

Code: [Select]
inorganic_stone_bfel

[OBJECT:INORGANIC]

[INORGANIC:JADED_SLADE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:jaded slade][DISPLAY_COLOR:2:0:1][TILE:176]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
[DISPLAY_COLOR:2:0:1]
[AQUIFER]
[ALL_STONE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:24]
[SPEC_HEAT:500]
[MELTING_POINT:12718]
[BOILING_POINT:14968]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7850]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:6980]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:1505000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:2520000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:940]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:1505000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:2520000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:940] 160
[TENSILE_YIELD:430000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:720000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:225] 200
[TORSION_YIELD:430000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:720000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:215]
[SHEAR_YIELD:430000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:720000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:215] no data, used 200
[BENDING_YIELD:430000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:720000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:215]
[MAX_EDGE:10000]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[IS_STONE]
[VEIN]
[UNDIGGABLE]
[DO_NOT_CLEAN_GLOB]

The name is a work in progress....also hoping that color is as green as I think it is.

But yeah, its [UNDIGGABLE] and occurs in veins in every stone/biome type.....HAVE !FUN!

secret: there are reports of people being able to mine undiggable stone through complex usage of ramps and such, so don't despair TOO much, you might even be well rewarded for your efforts :)
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #81 on: June 24, 2013, 03:43:38 pm »

I think Halfling is just concerned because you made it sound like you were outright copying things, which you seem to be doing what I do, which is to use the ripped raws as a baseline with which to edit into unrecognizability.

That is what I was trying to say.  I'm just not good with trying to describe my thoughts.
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It's Zanzetkuken The Great. He's a goddamn wizard-dragon. He will make it so, and it will forever be.
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<DozebomLolumzalis> you filthy god-damn ninja wizard dragon

Poldon

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #82 on: June 24, 2013, 03:51:24 pm »

Glad you're enjoying it. You should dig that meteoric iron and see what happens. I actually didn't try that yet. There are currently no clowns in the world even if you enabled them in worldgen, so who knows?

I just tried, I get the discovery message but not the invasion one, and nothing spawns either immediately or later, it seems.
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #83 on: June 24, 2013, 03:59:46 pm »

Cool additions but ripping bodies and creatures from vanilla, or a mod that's already out, kind of breaks the "from scratch" thing that's supposed to be going on and breaks the rules. Sorry to rain on your parade. The goal ITT is to make something new entirely.

I'm only doing that to save time, because I am working at my neighbors house a few hours out of the day, learning java, and having to read a book over the summer for a class at my school.  I could type up everything, but it would wind up exactly the same.  If you still want me to type it in manually, then I will, but I would rather perform a rip and modify to save time.

I understand how that is and what you're saying. Prepare for a rant.

I'm feeling two ways about this issue. Here's the thing: if we allow ripping vanilla stuff, we could just as well do a succession game where we trash vanilla creatures only. Keep the vanilla body templates and keep the vanilla materials, their templates and vanilla tissue templates, and use those to define all-new creatures that fill the empty world. Could let people import anything they've modded themselves. And that's not a bad idea. It would go faster and it would result in more content since it requires less skill and time. It might be more balanced. It could make a very good modding succession game and I would not be offended if someone does that and it wins over and kills this one, I would possibly contribute.

However, there is something to be said about doing it the hard way and working without Toady's pre-defined, already working stuff, and here it is. I personally originally figured my halflings would be just smaller vanilla humans with different equipment, and I could have just copied their raws, maybe adjusting the names and obfuscating it a little. But I didn't, and once I got to working with the materials and body plans, I realized I could make them do whatever I want. I started making differently behaving bones, gave creatures knees and wrists that can be severed and their cartilage destroyed, faces, necks that contain major arteries, bony spines concealing nervous tissue. And it only got better when it came time to make a working creature. They caught on fire a lot, didn't work a lot, but I ended up creating a whole different creature organization with reusable appearance varying, attack and interaction modules that takes half the space on paper, and it was so worth it. I've learned so much more about how the game works than I ever did working with established conventions, and even done a little "science" by accident.

It's really not a competitive advantage, I think. The first mentioned type of thread would be the more popular one. However, I am 100% sure that the creative rush that you get from doing things without convention - and I only had two days to get this started and did very little - will lead to much more unique results over time, all new creatures and mechanics and worlds. It's so much more interesting to know and build rather than copy and adjust that I'm actually not interested in the latter here.

So that said, for this thread, I'm going to stick to the no copying from vanilla or established mods rule, and sorry. Copypasting or rewriting by hand is irrelevant. If they're the exact same raws as vanilla for either the body or creature, they're going to be denied. They must be new.

Anyone get what I'm saying here?



Just read the new posts. I guess I was mistaken so as to your intent. If what you're going to do is start by copypasting the vanilla/mod raws and then edit and mutilate them until they're nothing like the vanilla, that is fine. The result counts, not the method. If you create something unique, it's welcome, and if not, then not.

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2013, 04:06:10 pm »

Ok, assigned Halflings body detail plans and such to the elves (shamelessly copied those plans from his race actually but that's literally what they are there for.)

And now I'm going to start up a fun new race that should be the first cavern entity of the mod ;D

Relegating "make custom body plans for treelords" to "whenever I stop being lazy and get around to figuring that crap out"
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #85 on: June 24, 2013, 04:10:46 pm »

I just tried, I get the discovery message but not the invasion one, and nothing spawns either immediately or later, it seems.

Yep, tried it myself too. Too bad. The game now occasionally sends hounds etc. underground to fill the void of underground beasts, so I was kind of hoping for an explosion of hounds, mallards and beasts.

We will need to find a way to make demons at some point, probably by exploiting the RCPs somehow... or who knows. As it is you could try to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2013, 04:20:12 pm »

DF from scratch- literally freezing hell over.

Wonder if we can assign creatures to the hell layer?
Actually I think Masterwork did that with the adamantine beetle.....

Hmmm.....anyone want !ICE!hell to be inhabited by fifty foot evil snowmen?

"They conquered the demons in ancient times....now you have disturbed their eternal slumber, and you shall spend eternity at [HOMEOTHERM:0]"
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #87 on: June 24, 2013, 04:26:28 pm »

I don't know how Masterwork could have done that. Maybe Meph is a genius. However, come to think of it, I think there is a way to make one player-made demon the default demon (that will rush your fortress too) by making all the random creature materials and body plans add its parts and then using a stream editor or the windows program in that thread on the DF executable to fix the hardcoded description (or live with it having a random one).

So when someone makes a really cool and dangerous one, we can use that. Or could make hand-made random creature generation raws instead.

Well, actually I did just read how Meph made that. Add:

   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:5:5]

to any creature you want to inhabit hell, apparently. Make some snowmen if you please!

For demons that rush your fort and user-made forgotten beasts, I think the first idea is what needs to be done. Furthermore, come to think of it some more (I really should think more before posting)...

There are likely some random creature parts that should only be added once and seem exclusive. They don't have multiple upper bodies, right? We could probably make each of these add an entire player-made creature, and make the rest empty. Then, edit the df executable so the descriptors for those add the creature description. If it works and doesn't make the universe vomit on itself, so could have many player-made nonrandom creatures as FBs and demons?

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #88 on: June 24, 2013, 05:32:48 pm »

Addition to the latter: it gets better.
Using a stream editor, you can to a limited extent manually point the DF random creature generation parts at user defined raws, at least for bodies.

experiment:

Starting errorlog:
Cannot generate random creatures -- missing body gloss RCP_GLOSS_PAW

Add to raws custom BODYGLOSS:RCP_GLOSS_WAP
sed -i 's/RCP_GLOSS_PAW/RCP_GLOSS_WAP/g' Dwarf_Fortress

random creature generation is now enabled (bodygloss WAP was used instead of PAW). Furthermore a string dump of DF contains what is apparently a list of randomly generated creature abilities and I'm assuming this can be modified similarly.

So I'm thinking user made random creatures with user made bodies and abilities at least are definitely on the table if it ever gets to that point. This'll wreck any compatibility and require using a modded .exe however.

Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2013, 05:54:04 pm »

-snip-

*jaw slowly drops*

I thought this was impossible!  Who knows what could result from this if the modding community was made aware of this...

As for breaking compatibility, I say we go for it.  We'll delve into areas that haven't been tried before, and Science on this must be done.
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Quote from: Eric Blank
It's Zanzetkuken The Great. He's a goddamn wizard-dragon. He will make it so, and it will forever be.
Quote from: 2016 Election IRC
<DozebomLolumzalis> you filthy god-damn ninja wizard dragon
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