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Total Members Voted: 69

[WillowLuman]

But the only trigger they have is a single trade one.

[Halfling]

You should both test and listen to what people want to have.

If they're indeed able to send ambushes to the lizardfolk that just pretty much means they can't be immortal without making playing as them unduly difficult. Is that how it goes if they have trade tags only?

They're definitely at war with lizardfolk in my newest world, just checked.


In other news, I've now grown to occasionally hate my creation. Trolls sure like to hang out in dungeons. You can expect to find them there, living under the city, among piles upon piles of rings, earrings, figurines and crowns made of various creature materials such as mallard keratin where I'm sure they're happy. Never in big groups, always in narrow corridors... or maybe I just don't make it that far. I must have lost five adventurers now this way: open door, stepping in. You have been spotted!! The troll smacks you around with his troll meteoric iron hammer. You have fallen unconscious. You died. Time to restart, again. (Well, to be fair, this used to happen with goblins too in vanilla. And they're not impossible to win one on one in melee even as a starting out halfling hero if you have a good weapon, but it's pretty damn hard if they get a first shot in.)

Sending in a troop of halflings with superior numbers is very valid strategy. Even a few useless hunters can overwhelm a troll when they just wrestle it like angry lemmings while you're free to deliver a killing blow. Luring them out of the dungeon for halfling peasants to rip them apart works too. And since halflings can wield one two-handed, appropriating a troll hammer and swinging it around is then so much more fun.

[WillowLuman]

But who started the war? Other civs will attack them, but they should never be starting anything. I've looked through many wars and haven't even seen them launch a counterattack.

Seriously, that Lizardfolk problem needs testing. We don't know if it occurs or not, and I don't want to "fix" it if there are no ambushes.

EDIT: I'm going to do some testing myself, but I'll need help. As halflings I barely see the Adherents, so I don't know how long it will take for them to show up, if at all, for Lizardfolk.

[Putnam]

Lizardfolk have [BABYSNATCHER] or [ITEM_THIEF], which makes them perma-hostile to all non-BABYSNATCHER or ITEM_THIEF civs.

[WillowLuman]

Yes, but if the Adherents only have a single trade progress trigger tag, will the Adherents send ambushes? That's what needs testing.

[Putnam]

The wiki says that it needs both a POPULATION and any other progress trigger, so maybe not.

[Halfling]

We know the wiki is often unreliable on anything more esoteric. The lizardmen need more playtesting anyway, it's two birds with one stone. Any reports will be featured ;P

You could lower their triggers to zero and have the full 4 active seasons; embark next to a psionic fort just in case that matters, for the worst case scenario.

[Putnam]

Lowering all the triggers to zero would just make them never do anything.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

We know the wiki is often unreliable on anything more esoteric. The lizardmen need more playtesting anyway, it's two birds with one stone. Any reports will be featured ;P

I'm going to start testing them.

Also, I put up the cheap metals/syndromes stuff a short time ago, please have the files added.

Files changed and added for cheap metals and the syndromes

[WillowLuman]

We've got copper, yeah, but also another fantasy metal and still no iron. Nothing wrong with more fantasy metals, I just think iron and gold are absolutely crucial.

[Halfling]

Lowering all the triggers to zero would just make them never do anything.

I meant zero value, not zero number But upon closer inspection that disables the trigger rather than setting it to minimum. Let's pretend I said "one".

@ZtG, looking forward to results. It's up to Putnam or Lost to add on their judgment. But on their behalf it would help if you gave a summary of all the changes, since that's a lot more files than just metals and a syndrome.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Lowering all the triggers to zero would just make them never do anything.

I meant zero value, not zero number But upon closer inspection that disables the trigger rather than setting it to minimum. Let's pretend I said "one".

@ZtG, looking forward to results. It's up to Putnam or Lost to add on their judgment. But on their behalf it would help if you gave a summary of all the changes, since that's a lot more files than just metals and a syndrome.

The reaction and entity files are there in order to allow the Lizardfolk to use the metals, since I used a different methodology for them to gain metals.  The two creature files are there for the changes to the syndromes, since I changed the immune creature class of REPTILE to POISON_IMMUNE and SWAMP_DWELLER.  The latter of the two is why I have the dragons file, in order to add that to the marsh/swamp based dragons.

[WillowLuman]

I don't think [POISON_IMMUNE] is such a good idea, since an organic creature can hardly be immune to all kinds of toxicity. Using the classifications probably makes more sense. [SWAMP_DWELLER], for instance, could make stuff from the swamp be immune to poisons from the swamp (like those of other swamp dwellers), but other creatures could have poisons they're not adapted to resist, and there's still stuff like radioactivity, or cyanide, or arsenic.

I did a hack-intensive test on the Adherents. As lizardfolk, I embarked directly on a monastery, outside the walls so I don't get attacked. Then I used DFhack to force a siege from them. Instant loyalty cascade, they turned each other berserk and just stayed put blasting themselves. Then I used slayrace. Oddly enough, they appear to dissolve into smoke when killed, except for the fleshy acolytes.

[Halfling]

While fun, what does that test?

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I don't think [POISON_IMMUNE] is such a good idea, since an organic creature can hardly be immune to all kinds of toxicity. Using the classifications probably makes more sense. [SWAMP_DWELLER], for instance, could make stuff from the swamp be immune to poisons from the swamp (like those of other swamp dwellers), but other creatures could have poisons they're not adapted to resist, and there's still stuff like radioactivity, or cyanide, or arsenic.

What would a POISON_IMMUNE creature class be good for?  Supernatural Creatures, such as angels and demons, for one.

I did a hack-intensive test on the Adherents. As lizardfolk, I embarked directly on a monastery, outside the walls so I don't get attacked. Then I used DFhack to force a siege from them. Instant loyalty cascade, they turned each other berserk and just stayed put blasting themselves. Then I used slayrace. Oddly enough, they appear to dissolve into smoke when killed, except for the fleshy acolytes.

That proves absolutely nothing.  If you embark upon a site with other creatures, they wind up as being friendly/defenders, if I am recalling correctly.