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Total Members Voted: 69

[kopout]

Unfortunately you can't drink vanilla milk.

Because milk is considered a food and not a drink, dwarves will not drink it, even if they are dying of thirst.

If you add alcohol tags to milk the game no longer considerers it milk. Only water and alcohol are drinkable in fort mode so milk can only be eaten and not drunk. as it stands you can drink plant milk and make cheese from animal milk. (mostly moot, only coconuts produce milk at the moment)

[WillowLuman]

Maybe make it drinkable through "pasteurization"? Turn it into another material, a new drink template that doesn't have the hangover.

[Halfling]

That seems like doing it backwards when we have milk and not cheese, and the most straightforward use of milk is not to make cheese but to drink it. How about making animal milk drinkable from the start with [ALCOHOL_CREATURE], and if that makes it not processable to cheese with the vanilla reaction, then when there's such a thing as cheese in the universe, adding a custom reaction to turn it into cheese instead (rather than a reaction to turn milk into drinkable milk)?

[WillowLuman]

Except there's already a vanilla reaction to turn milk into cheese, which cannot be removed.

[Halfling]

So just ignore that one. There's lots of vanilla reactions that can't be removed. Our apple trees are already a little counterintuitive if you just rely on vanilla reactions.

Milk that's drinkable by default would make the DFFS experience more refreshing and give another little chance for "doing it right" to shine.

[WillowLuman]

True. But you'd need to remind people so they don't get the reactions confused.

Scratch that, we'd need to label the custom cheese reaction so people can tell.

[Aseaheru]

Can you atleast rename it or restrict the vanilla one?

[Putnam]

Yes, but only with DFHack.

[Aseaheru]

Bah.

[kopout]

Of course, we could make cheese obtainable as a hive product produced by teeny tiny sheep. Bees the size of sheep and sheep the size of bees!

[Halfling]

Yeah, sadly you can't rename it. You should be able to rename the vanilla one with a patched binary (easy - or edit, maybe not, since it's not visible in a stringdump, would need tinkering), with any memory editor like scanmem (laborous) or DFhack. We haven't gone so far as to bundle any of those yet.

It might be a little confusing. But I think we already took the path where you should read a DFFS player guide for your race before playing.

At this time, pressing "just play", unless you're formics, will give you an iridium anvil that's too expensive for you to take much else (when you should just cast a cheap anvil), with poisonous plants to eat, and make it very hard for you to get started. Playing vanilla style without a care you'll end up cultivating more poison, brewing alcohol that gives your people hangovers and is unnecessary, generally just dying to any invaders and occasionally the wildlife, and If you don't know about fruit trees you're getting less food and fruit. In short, extra fun. I don't think we should switch gears and start worrying about that too much at this point. Doing differently is cool and ultimately what makes this interesting. So making milk work differently would be just a logical continuation of that process.

That said I'm not the player-base nor am I actively developing because I'll feel too guilty taking away from university activities, so whatever works.

[WillowLuman]

We just need to remember to label things, so people don't get confused. Call it "REALLY make cheese" or something.

Also, I vote for not making anything that needs DFhack to work. Not everyone can run it.

[Halfling]

Regardless of what one's feelings are on the matter of whether including it is good, there's so much work to be done with the universe, I don't think you can make a coherent argument that implementing DFhack hacks should be in the spotlight now.

TrueSpoiler: I dislike distributing unsigned binaries and telling people to "just run it" on systems where you typically log in as administrator and the typical user doesn't know/care, I don't like the idea of making this very difficult and complex to run, I don't want to support anything that didn't share its source code when it would take 2-3 clicks to do that, and I don't want to shut Mac users out, or provide inadequate support to different/better operating systems than mainstream, etc. It would be simplest and cleanest if this is just a raws mod and doesn't include any utilities as then it's easy for everyone, including the modders. But there's also lots, very many cool things to do with DFhack, these days, like light effects, diplomacy-affecting reactions, etc. that you will see in Masterwork that are amazing, and it's not like there can't be different forks. So eventually if that's what's needed to reach new frontiers, then I don't want to cut off that possibility either. I'll not veto it if people want to include DFhack or other utilities at some point. It's a discussion we'll eventually have. Just saying for discussion.

[Putnam]

You probably want to use transparent colors.

Literally color=transparent.

[Halfling]

Thanks for your speed. Used the wrong hex - seems like transparent is the better option.

I find the regular spoiler annoying because it stands out more than the usual text. It's more like "make post shorter", not "hide text" (a very good feature to have though).

For anyone interested the non-transparent choices are #292929 and #444444