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Author Topic: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort  (Read 8178 times)

MuseOD

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Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« on: June 21, 2013, 05:40:42 am »

So what you do is build a small, roofed aboveground 3x3 structure like so with a 3x1 entrance space. Surround with cage traps, about 10x10 squares in all. (Almost) everything scary that tries to jump you won't be able to. I've gone through 3 gobbo seiges and haven't lost a dwarf, capturing entire armies of gobbos. Just in case, have a perimeter of weapon traps closest to the structure as well, just in case things get too close.
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Mungrul

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 06:07:46 am »

Yeah, the power of the humble cage trap is well documented around these parts.
Myself, I try to avoid using them whenever possible as they remove a lot of the challenge from DF. And there's always the fiddly and awkward process of disposing of what's in the cages.

My preferred entrance trap is the dodge trap, where traps line a long, 1-square wide bridge over a fatal or near-fatal drop. It doesn't catch everything, and the occasional thinking-impaired dorf gets caught by it too, but it's a lot more fun than acres of cage traps.
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Tjoh

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 06:09:10 am »

While it seems quite effective, the only time I think I would use something like that is if I needed a bunch of prisoners for something. Personally I'm very fond of huge and complicated traps. I'm currently using a trap that automatically kills anything hostile that enters my fortress. Without any input from me, it even leaves the goblinite for pickup and refills itself.
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MuseOD

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 07:47:59 am »

@Tjoh
So....a drowning chamber?
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Matoro

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 08:06:49 am »

After my turn in the succession fort of Amberjewel, I noticed the bad side of many cage traps - there will be terrible amounts of prisoners and you should do something to them. And it costs lots of effective dwarfpower to build execution devices. For me it's just so much easier to rely on a good military - it kills, it is mobile, it is adaptable.

Also, cages are OP. I use them only in a small quantities and when capturing animals.
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Tjoh

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 08:47:56 am »

@MuseOD
Not a drowning chamber, but a large 2-tile wide corridor made of retractable bridges that gets flooded with magma and retracts, dropping the burning or dead goblins several z-levels to make sure they all die. The falling magma then destroys everything that isn't metal on the bottom (the floor is grates down there). Everything repeats automatically and I don't have to wait for puddles of 1/7 magma to disappear in order for the rest of the invaders to path to their doom.
Some magma needs to be refilled once every few years, but apart from that I don't have to do anything at all. Ambushes gets annihilated without me even noticing.
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I am Leo

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 08:56:54 am »

Make the entrance to your fort be up some stairs with a hatches on top and suddenly your fortress in entirely impenetrable. Anything on top of that is pure gravy.
Make this hatch part of a goblin grinder http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Trap_design#Goblin_Grinder and your fortress can be impenetrable and kill all comers in the space of 4 tiles.
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sprawl15

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 09:21:45 am »

Myself, I try to avoid using them whenever possible as they remove a lot of the challenge from DF. And there's always the fiddly and awkward process of disposing of what's in the cages.

I was playing with cage traps and using the captured gobbos as training dummies.  The first siege brought the Goblin leader, who was helpfully captured in one of the cages, leading to a glorious project.  The mass pitting room was expanded to allow 72 things to be chucked down into my militia at once, and a small side VIP box was constructed for the Goblin leader, with a perfect view of the slaughter through fortifications.

The games begin, and the first round of a dozen thrips men is killed quickly.  A handful of stripped goblins are released next, and slaughtered.  Then one troll, then two at once.  Finally, a whole squad of goblins who were allowed to keep their equipment are dumped into the militia, and they were cut down.  No significant injuries other than one death of a recruit who apparently forgot to pick up a helmet.  The doors were unlocked, the militia returned to their barracks and booze...

...and then the entire fortress descended into the arena to pick up the corpse (or maybe the goblins' socks), froze in terror at seeing the goblin leader in his prison, and ran away only to stop, turn around, and do the same thing.  Turns out I forgot to build the drawbridge shutters for his prison.  It only went on for a bit, but having every civilian in the fortress parade into a miasma filled pit decorated with dwarf brains put me smack on the rails for the tantrum spiral that killed the fort a few game months later.

So yeah, I would also recommend a dodge trap or a glass serrated disc trap.
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Taffer

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 09:33:39 am »

I try not to have too effective a defense. I dislike walling everything up and often rely on weapon traps more than cage traps. Occasional goblin interruptions keeps the little bastards on their toes, and keeps me from getting bored with forts.
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Drazinononda

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 10:38:40 am »

My last fort had a very simple defense: I put my barracks in front of the entrance ramp. The first few years were pretty quiet, just a few thieves and snatchers and one ambush. My axedwarf squad peaked at six members, all armed and armored in low-quality steel. When the first siege came, I was expecting a slaughter: two squads, one of which was marksgoblins, both arrived mounted on War Jabberers. I did lose a handful of  civilians (I didn't have any sort of meeting area or burrows) but only one of my soldiers, a green recruit who got some limbs torn off by one of the big birds. By the time I abandoned the fort for FPS a year or so later, the remaining five soldiers were all legendary... so it probably would have been a similar story even with larger sieges.
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Children you rescue shouldn't behave like rabid beasts.  I guess your regular companions shouldn't act like rabid beasts either.
I think that's a little more impossible than I'm likely to have time for.

vcordie

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 11:56:45 am »

Make the entrance to your fort be up some stairs with a hatches on top and suddenly your fortress in entirely impenetrable. Anything on top of that is pure gravy.
Make this hatch part of a goblin grinder http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Trap_design#Goblin_Grinder and your fortress can be impenetrable and kill all comers in the space of 4 tiles.

Except: Building destroyers, trapavoid creatures, flyiers (if you don't build a ceiling), forgotten beasts (since they come from below) or if the trap jams. Which it will. Rather quickly.
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BoredVirulence

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2013, 12:31:43 pm »

Except: Building destroyers, trapavoid creatures, flyiers (if you don't build a ceiling), forgotten beasts (since they come from below) or if the trap jams. Which it will. Rather quickly.
Well, not quite. Ramps leading to a hatch or door (more tricky) are effectively impenetrable from below if locked. They make for a very good first line of defense. Although it can be bypassed, its pretty effectjve and makes for a quick "indestructible" entrance early on. And doors / hatches have the advantage of being lockable by the player rather than the dwarves, I like to use them to hold out invaders until my bridge's lever gets pulled (well, when I do seal up).

Although, in my opinion, making it a goblin grinder negates the "quick response" that I use mine for. It has advantages, it has negatives, but its pretty effective.
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vcordie

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 12:38:05 pm »

Not as effective as dodgeme traps though.
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BoredVirulence

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 12:49:05 pm »

I was merely pointing out that using a hatch as described will make it effectively impenetrable to building destroyers, making them an alternative to bridges. I also had a minor rant where I described what I use doors for, but that was mostly unrelated.

Even then your dodge trap has plenty of drawbacks as well. Trap avoid (unless using cave-ins), fliers, jams(unless cave-in), and as you said forgotten beasts. So, they have all of the same drawbacks, unless you are using cave-ins. And then, cave-in dodge traps require manual activation making them useless against undetected ambushes.
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vcordie

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Re: Possibly the best, cheapest defence for your fort
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 03:11:14 pm »

the answer to all those is fortifications in the wall+marksdwarves. Or ballista.


Or magma. The answer is always magma.
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