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[Neonivek]

I love the idea of turning all the random races in the game into their own nations.

[E. Albright]

My personal to-do list is "advanced"/mercenary-style humans (I have these about a third done), enki, ogres, maybe muuch, maybe Mesoamerican humans, maybe foulspawn, maybe bakemono. A number of those have some overlap, too. But what I really need to do is stop mucking about with content and tighten up the engine's code.

[EnigmaticHat]

I've noticed two flaws.  First, the engine seems to love generating stealth +0 units, which AFAIK means that they can sneak but any patrol check will automatically find them.  Not a good mechanic.  This happens to both commanders and common infantry.  Additionally the non-zero stealth checks I've seen on units which are not the token scout tend to be low values like +25, while the low end in vanilla seems to be +40.

The second is that any unit generated with gift of water breathing 50 or sailing 999 will automatically have BOTH, which seems to override sailing in favor of water breathing.  Also it seems to mainly happen to sacreds that are both commanders and units, which is unfortunate because neither of those abilities has any effect unless its a commander which has them.

[E. Albright]

For stealth, IIRC non-scout-types get either +0 or +20. That might be worth pushing up a bit. For units, it wouldn't matter (0-50 and 51+ are the only meaningful value ranges) but commanders of course are another story.

The part with the sailing/waterbreathing sounds odd. I'll look at the filters.

Unless... are those Fomorian Giants? That's standard for all of them. They're also all sacred. The troops get them both too based on how the system works, but it won't matter unless they get GoR'd. Now, if the combination of those two powers disables one of them, that's news to me, kinda disturbing, and frankly sounds like a game error since that's a combo that exists on Fomorians in the vanilla game.

[EnigmaticHat]

Ok, forget everything I said, I didn't realize that was vanilla :/

Edit: the stealth thing is worth pushing a bit simply to communicate to the player better, stealth +0 seems intuitively wrong.

[Karlito]

For stealth, IIRC non-scout-types get either +0 or +20. That might be worth pushing up a bit. For units, it wouldn't matter (0-50 and 51+ are the only meaningful value ranges) but commanders of course are another story.

I poked around on the mod inspector for a bit, and it looks like in the base game the lowest stealth value assigned to any unit is 20 (Raven of the underworld). Most human units and the like have stealth +40.

[EnigmaticHat]

Anyone know if its possible to have, via modding, a troop shapeshift into a commander?  I'm trying but I'm stumped.  To be clear, the actual shapeshift is happening fine, but the troop in question does not gain any qualities of a commander (which makes sense as they were not hired as one).

[Delta Foxtrot]

That's not possible I believe. Only way to turn troops into commanders is to cast gift of reason or divine name on them. You could probably mod those spells to be cheaper if you want to transform troops en masse to commanders, but that's about it.

[Frumple]

About the only thing I can think of -- and I doubt it's actually possible -- is to have the commander-form have a piece of natural equipment that auto-casts GoR or DN. Somehow.

And yeah, making the spells cheap is trivially easy. I think you might even be able to mod a cheap one that only works on certain units, but I'm far from sure on that.

You might be able to make a request on... desura, I think is where the devs look these days? For the functionality you're looking for.

[EnigmaticHat]

I think I'll just go with cheap GoR.

One thing I considered was to make a global GoR that is extremely cheap and only effects the specific units I want to become commanders, but that sounds like work.  And there's still the question of who would cast it.  It appears spells can be made to only target specific types of units using the #damagemon command, but its poorly explained in the manual which is a bad sign.

[Delta Foxtrot]

Something like that's been done:
http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/gifts-for-all

Best case scenario, that works for you as is. But tweaking or copying parts should get you pretty far.

[EnigmaticHat]

So, I've got decent idea of how to use most paths.  But I have absolutely no idea how to use water and nature magic.  Vine shields and front brands, that's literally the extent of my knowledge.  That and wolf chaff.

What can you do with these paths, including at the late game?

[E. Albright]

Mid-to-late game, they're good for globals: Mother Oak, Gift of Health, Vengeful Waters. You can also get some nice queens from each; elemental for water, and A3N3 disease-healing Fairy Queens for nature. Oh, and nature gives you Worms That Walk as well. <3 In combat, nature gives you Howl, Mass Prot/Regen, Storm of Thorns, and Charm; water gives you Falling Frost, Frozen Heart, Liquify, and Niefel Flames. There's more, but that's a decent start point for 'em...

[Karlito]

If you have both on one mage, casting Naiad Warriors is pretty fun.

[Boksi]

Bottles of water.

You need to be magical in order to put water in a bottle, you see, and there's a lot of demand for bottled water out there.