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[Urist McScoopbeard]

Ya, I ended up going dom 10. Needless to say, a lot of the map is a bleak wasteland. Ya, labs not really necessary, I have one extra just to provide a shorter route to summonable reinforcements for my northern armies, but that's it.

[Frumple]

Yeah... conceptually, maybe one of the alchemy spells? Could take a high fire or earth pretender (probably the latter, for forging and conceptually bless. Though given it's Ermor you probably have plenty of room for bless, ha.) to squeeze out some more money. You could probably get by siphoning fire gems, at least, into your pocketbook as necessary. Earth to a lesser degree, but...

... anyone know how much gold an F10 or E10+ (base X9+boosters) pretender squeezes out per gem?

[E. Albright]

... anyone know how much gold an F10 or E10+ (base X9+boosters) pretender squeezes out per gem?

The breakdown is:

Alchemical Transmutation = (9 + E) x (gems - 1) gold per casting
Distill Fire = (14 + F) x (gems - 1) gold per casting
Earth Gem Alchemy = (11 + 2E) x (gems - 1) gold per casting
Transmute Fire = (16 + 2F) x (gems - 1) gold per casting

So for a normal E10/F10 caster, you're looking at 31g/36g per gem, ignoring the one-gem overhead to cast the spell. A Master Alchemist obviously is getting double that for 62g/72g. For an endgame scenario, a 10E/10F Master Alchemist with the Alchemist's Stone will get 77g/90g per additional gem put into the spell.

[Delta Foxtrot]

MA Marignon gets 4F cap income, access to master alchemist and has an alluring sacred (flagellant) for a high F bless. Gimmicky as anything but so are a lot of things. MA Ulm gets 5E cap infome but isn't really a sacred nation. Ex will be cheaper than Fx on the alchemist though.
Other master alchemist nations: LA Ulm|Marignon|Agartha|Bogarus

[lijacote]

Moghopper's posted 4.05 for newbies only if you'd like to get in on that.

[Mindmaker]

I'll be taking part in a beginner game later this day. Too bad it's EA and I don't know shit about EA.
Well half the fun of those games is actually playing badly, so I might as well have some fun with Yomi.

Edit:
Worth building your Pretender to get your national summons?

[Frumple]

... depends on the summons, and if they scale with caster power. Like, MA Argatha, it's not the worst thing to build an E9 pretender (or disciple) to cast Hall of Statues.

EA Yomi, though? Definitely not. Most (Looks like all, really...) of their nationals can be summoned by their recruitable troops, and only one of them scale (and... you're probably not going to build a successful strategy around spamming konoha tengu). You'd be better off building your pretender to summon something that can summon your national summons, or to build boosters so your troops can have an easier time summoning them.

[Karlito]

My advice, and especially for a beginner, is to just stay away from Yomi. They currently have the problem that all their worthwhile troops are super expensive and chaos powered, which means you have to choose between not having enough of them, or having them be extra weak.

[Mindmaker]

Well I'm going forgo the extra paths and just pick up another major bless instead.
With a little luck some indie mage may be able to summon them and if I don't find any, then I can live with the loss.

They are tricky I agree, but I have faith in my ability to play them against equally unexperienced players.
One of Yomis strong points is that you don't need big standing armies like many other nations do, therefore saving yourself the upkeep up until the point where you'll need them.
Considering most of their troops are resource 1, you can recruit a whole army in a single turn at your basic fort.

I'll be playing the game SC heavy anyway.
I just hope somebody doesn't counter me too hard.

[Frumple]

Mm... the only thing you'd be missing out on are the nature summons (Kappa, karatengu, nushi)*, though getting a Dai-Oni that can summon Dai-tengu is pretty rare (though if you've got a pretender that can build air boosters -- or summon something that can -- you've got a 1 in 4 chance of recruiting a sorcerer that can summon 'em. Or just trade for one, if you're in MP.). You've got easy access to the death nationals, and your sorcerers (and dai-oni, though if you're using dai-oni to summon things something has probably gone incredibly wrong.) have a 1 in 4 chance of being able to summon konoha tengu. You're not giving up much not having a pretender that's an AWN mix.

Though, that said, I don't think WN would be a terrible bless for Yomi. Maybe not incredible, but not terrible. And then you'd have a pretender that can summon naiads to deal with summoning the part-nature nationals (barring the karasu tengu, anyway, but screw them. AN is kinda' rare.). Assuming you ever want to summon kappa (nope**) or nushi (maybe).

*And, uh. They're not exactly the most mindblowing of summons, those.
**3 water gems and a caster's turn for three kappa? Are you kidding me?

[Mindmaker]

Well the two mages are quite nice although wasting paths and a pretender turn would be too much.
Never did any mass summoning, but I guess It could be useful for Yomi to have troops that don't disintegrate from banishment.
Except for Kappa that is. Can't imagine summoning those even if I desperately need a water province and can't find indies.

Honestly, the longer I play Yomi the more ways to play them I do discover.
They aren't as simple as they appear. Given the right indie mages you can do interesting things with them and their national summons.

[Delta Foxtrot]

Incidentally Yomi gets the Celestial General pretender who has a mix of AES which opens up some of yomi/shin/jomon national summons and is a lovely minor bless chassis in general. Not the optimal choice for every strat but it's one of my favourite pretenders/pretender paths out there.

I've seen Naiad Warriors in use. They're pretty good on the battlefield and are fairly gem/mage-turn efficient. That's not too common in the current vanilla
Not sure I'd build a pretender for those, but they're definitely a unit to keep an eye on if you ever happen to run into some WN.

[Mindmaker]

Advince for designing LA Jomon?

Thinking about a dormant Celestial general (once he awakes I can outfit him with items to take a water province) with 4A4E5S.
Not sure about scales though. Their great maintainance/research ratio monks seem to cry out for magic scales and I'd like to take 1-2 there.
Troops cost a high amount of resources (25 resources for your mid/late infantary unit and archers). I'd like to take 2-3 production there.
Not sure about gold. On the one hand all your troops are low gold, but on the other hand you want a lot of high upkeep mages, who have high variance so you might need to recruit a lot to get what you want.

[moghopper]

Advince for designing LA Jomon?

Thinking about a dormant Celestial general (once he awakes I can outfit him with items to take a water province) with 4A4E5S.
Not sure about scales though. Their great maintainance/research ratio monks seem to cry out for magic scales and I'd like to take 1-2 there.
Troops cost a high amount of resources (25 resources for your mid/late infantary unit and archers). I'd like to take 2-3 production there.
Not sure about gold. On the one hand all your troops are low gold, but on the other hand you want a lot of high upkeep mages, who have high variance so you might need to recruit a lot to get what you want.

Obviously you should take no magic paths, and -3 in all scales. A sure way to defeat me

[Shadowlord]

And put all your points into DOMINION! It's so crazy, it just might work.