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[E. Albright]

Get out your manual. There's a tutorial in it that will help a lot. Don't try to take in everything at once and it'll be a lot easier; you could probably play a game and do okay with never having looked at unit stats so long as you picked a straightforward nation like Man, Ulm, or Marignon. Ease into it, and drown in the complexity slowly...

[nenjin]

Also:  Holy shit, complicated.

At first blush, yes. But only if you really want to understand the math behind what happens. Otherwise, I think Dominions is actually pretty straightforward. What there is to learn, is a ton of small rules that, when they scale up create problems if you don't know what's going on.

So, for example. When you q units to build, there's two ways to do it. You can spend up to the available resources of the province and repeat that build order every turn....

Or you order MORE units than the province resources can support per turn, and basically spend the gold ahead of time.

How this manifests in game though is a huge disconnect between your "Income" and "Upkeep" values. You'll look at it thinking you should be making 1000 gold per turn when you're only making 600. That's because the game doesn't state your recruitment costs anywhere.

Not a huge deal for games in their first decade or so.....but when you're playing on a 400 province map and you're 20 years into your game, you can easily lose track of where you're recruiting and end up going into the red. Then add Unrest reducing Income sprinkled liberally across your empire and yeah....

The other thing that takes some time to understand is how Dominion works, because there's lots of little rules and effects there. (Your troops have less morale when outside your pretender's dominion. Death dominion increases the likelihood of getting diseases afflictions. Pretenders don't automatically resurrect outside of their own dominion. Things of that nature.

Dominions isn't like, DF complex though. It is wonderfully supported by tooltips almost everywhere, which really helps. If you don't bother to try and understand what's going on during battles, Dom is fairly easy to learn. Intermediate level is where you start paying close attention to how your armies are built and what AI orders they're given.

Also, protip: Unless you're going to save scum, do. not. sweat. your. heroes. There are 100 ways for a commander to become crippled. I've done extensive testing through save scumming, and the simple fact is big battles = your best commanders getting trashed. They'll get cursed. They'll get horror marked. They'll lose an arm or become crippled. They'll get diseased. Early game it's not as likely (although the random Deer Shaman or w/e cursing/horror marking your guys is annoying as shit.) but late game the AI will, not necessarily kill them but reduce their effectiveness.

Almost all nations have ways to keep your heroes in tip-top fighting shape, but most are mid to late game solutions. For me heroes are one of the best parts of Dominions from an RPG aspect, but they're also the reason the game causes stress. When you've got a whole army of your best heroes bearing down on your opponent, and half of them exit the fight with one foot in the grave, it leaves you feeling kinda mad. There are only two things you really can't fix when it comes to heroes, and that's Cursing and Horror Marking. So just a fair warning. Early on, heroes seem amazing and nigh-invincible. Mid game though their frailties start to show.

(As an aside, fucking Twiceborn. Why, oh why, would I want a guy who is feebleminded, mute, crippled and missing an eye to resurrect in that state? A feebleminded wight mage? WTF? You can't even reliably get them to die in your dominion without specifically arranging an enemy province in your dominion for them to go zerg into. Such rage. It really undercuts my desire to play Sceleria, my favorite nation, because all my reborn heroes end up just as crippled as they were at the time of their death. I kinda figured Twiceborn would waive some of the stupid shit like Feebleminded.)

[Frumple]

[snip]As an aside, fucking Twiceborn.[snip]

... roll a n5+ (or less, if boosters are involved) pretender, get that gift of health going? I think that still mostly works on undead. S'a nice global if you can poach it fast enough, anyway.

[nenjin]

[snip]As an aside, fucking Twiceborn.[snip]

... roll a n5+ (or less, if boosters are involved) pretender, get that gift of health going? I think that still mostly works on undead. S'a nice global if you can poach it fast enough, anyway.

Yeah, but compared to B2 and Blood Feast, there are easier, faster ways to save heroes from Affliction.

Plus, GoH doesn't automatically fix anything. It just increases the chances they will cure afflications. Blood Feast, on the other hand, has like a 90% chance to remove all afflictions on cast. For the small, small price of potentially a few eaten peasants per turn. (Used it close to 20 times in my current game, only 1 guy has gone cannibal.) Honestly, for 5 Blood Slaves, that spell is stupid good. It should easily cost 15.

[Puzzlemaker]

What's an n5+ pretender?

Also: I need to get into one of those multiplayer games.  Singleplayer is brutal and long, it seems like it would be more fun to play a turn a day.

[nenjin]

Nature 5 Pretender. (B2 is Blood 2.)

Singleplayer is brutal and long, it seems like it would be more fun to play a turn a day.

I dunno, I prefer the pace. Starts very quick, turns are very quick, and then it slows down as your empire grows and you have more things to manage. It's epic. Province count is really what determines the speed of gameplay and how redonkulous armies can get.

There seems to be two schools of thought on Dom. One is small maps, quick gameplay. It really brings tactical choices to the fore. Which spells you shoot for first, what magic items you build, what kind of pretenders you make. Build orders and the like. Kind of like an RTS only being TBS. MP plays to specific builds and goals.

The other is long games of Dom, where everyone gets to fully explore their options as they expand their empires, everyone gets plenty of room to grow and breathe before they encounter enemy nations, and it all culminates in a 2 year-long slug fest. The downside is that in MP, once you've won a significant victory over an opponent, people tend to quit since it's an extreme uphill battle to recover from losing 3/4 of your armies in one conflict.

From an RPG perspective, I like singleplayer. You get to watch heroes develop, get to imagine stories around what happens. Plus......the AI isn't exactly brilliant, whereas players can and will put the screws to you. (I.e. attacking with a single disposable wizard so he can curse every single troop on the battlefield. Or casting Baleful Star or half a dozen other nasty spells on your best armies. Or sending in stealth infiltrators to undermine your dominion or attack behind your lines. Or using global enchantments that are game enders, like the one where all living things age at an accelerated rate.)

[Toady Two]

Also: I need to get into one of those multiplayer games.  Singleplayer is brutal and long, it seems like it would be more fun to play a turn a day.

I'm playing my first PBEM multiplayer game and its much more enjoyable that single player or 1v1 blitzes I played with a friend. You actually have time plan things out and micro all your armies and thugs effectively.

I'm playing MA Ulm and doing reasonably well. The map is very crowded and there are wars left and right just barely past turn 10. Nations without a reputation for being overpowered/dangerous have a much easier time in multiplayer because diplomacy is easier. Our Ermor player got ganged up on from day 1. People hate Ermor for their popkill dominion and the fact that they often cast buttfucking global enchantments like Burden of Time. After this game I'm thinking about trying out LA Lemuria. I keep hearing that they are very weak with worse troops that MA Ermor and all of the diplomatic stigma. But legions of ghosts are so flavorful. I will try to think of a way to make them work in MP. One idea I had would be to rush an underwater province, build a castle there and cast Burden of Time then hide the caster underwater. it's hard to siege undead as it is and underwater it will be borderline impossible.

[Puzzlemaker]

Multiplayer does seem like it would be fun.  I am sure singleplayer would be awesome as well, I just have to not play for four hours straight.  "Just one more turn!  Pangaea will regret attacking me oh shit it's midnight"

And then Ermor came and undeadified me with about a thousand troops.  I was playing as Ulm because evidently they are newb-friendly, but they also evidently are resources intensive which my dominion wasn't built for.  So I ended up spending huge amounts of money getting defense on all my provinces (Since I didn't have anything else to spend the money on), which is exciting. 

So then I slowly started losing.  Ulm is interesting because since all the units cost so many resources, it seems like it's a good strategy to build as many troops in as many different provinces as possible, as (Correct me if I am wrong) Each province get's a certain amount of resources that disappear, so you want to use as much of it as possible.  And I read somewhere that forts just grab resources from neighboring territories based on how much administration (Is that right?  Does 45 administration mean 45% of the resources for neighboring provinces get yoinked and added to that province?)

Also, I have a few questions about movement.  I had horsemen that said they had two world move points, but I could only get them to move one.  How do I get them to move two?  I checked to make sure their armies all had two movement as well.  Also, I was playing on a map with streams, and it wouldn't let most units cross them (They had to use the bridge) but siege engineers could cross some of the rivers.  Why is that?  Also, does the fort resource yoinking work across rivers as well?

[nenjin]

I had horsemen that said they had two world move points, but I could only get them to move one.  How do I get them to move two?  I checked to make sure their armies all had two movement as well.

2 things:

1. Mixed unit armies use the lowest movement available I believe. So if you have a mounted commander and gave him unmounted body guards, the whole army will move at their speed.

2. Terrain types. W/o Forest or Mountain (or Hill?) Survival, fast moving ground troops move at 1 through difficult terrain. This includes moving into terrain. So if you're second move would take you into a forest, you have to end your movement before the forest.

I was playing on a map with streams, and it wouldn't let most units cross them (They had to use the bridge) but siege engineers could cross some of the rivers.  Why is that?

So, as I understand it, rivers can only be crossed if a) it's mid or late winter and b) if the province has at least cold +1. So if your dominion means you're cold + 0 in winter, that river will never be crossable by regular units. That said, I think any unit with Water 1 can cross at any time? I dunno, those special terrain movement things seem inconsistent to me, but I'm probably missing something.

Also, does the fort resource yoinking work across rivers as well?

Likewise, I'm not sure on this. But my thought would be no.

Resources

Provinces always generate the same amount of resources each turn, and these resources are not stored. So yes, it makes sense to spend down a provinces' resources where possible. Gold is the limiting factor on whether or not you should do this.

And then Ermor came and undeadified me with about a thousand troops.

Lots and lots of and lots of Priests set to "Hold or Cast A Spell/Cast Spells" will do a number on Ermor. I think one of their spells makes undead more resistant to banishment, but when you're facing 1000 undead, your priests effectively have an cheap AoE nuke they can cast every turn that will rip big chunks out of that army. I forget what the exact spell is but I think all Level 2+ priests can cast it. Or you can set the AI to just cast that spell repeatedly if you know you're going into a fight like that. (Cntrl + Number while hovering over a commander's orders allows you to save that preset. Then you just hover over their commands and hit (Number) to assign it. Very handy when you need several specific AI presets to deal with specific threats.)

PS- I've noticed a difference between Easy and Normal AI is how often it recruits/how big it makes its armies. Playing normal it is not uncommon for all nations in mid game to have several 1000 man armies out there. Coupled with the aggressive AI setting and it can be a real headache, because as soon as it punches through one of your high province defense borderlands.....it runs amok through the soft underbelly of your empire.

Province Defense is a real godsend. When I'm toe-to-toe with another nation, I always make sure I have a good amount of gold to plug gaps in my defenses when they break through. Amusingly, you can also use the absence of province defense to bait the AI into attacking where you want it to.

[Puzzlemaker]

Ah, thanks a ton!  That helps a lot.

While I am asking questions, here is a big one:  What's a good build order?  How many researchers should I get?  How many scouts should I build?

[nenjin]

The answers will be different for MP and SP, and based on a lot of factors like map-size and what the other pretenders will demand out of your play style.

My perspective from SP comp stomps:

1. How many scouts is a matter of how much ground there is to cover and how advanced warning you feel you need that large armies are approaching. Scouting narrows down the possible army size from just casual observation (which can have it be at least 4x larger or smaller than it's actual size.) But it doesn't give you the truth always, and magic items can further deceive you. So. I stay pretty light on scouts. I usually have 2 to 3, one to go to every corner of the map to find out where the enemy dominions start. I also use them to scout Throne locations so I know what I can handle sooner rather than later.

The real question is....how many assassins do you need? Because for the most part, an Assassin is just a Scout with the power to assassinate, and there are several kinds of specialized assassins in the game. (EA Mictlan's expensive summonable assassin is MONEY.)

2. Researchers. In SP, it's to taste. I average about 8 to 10 researchers with feathers and skull mentors. That means it takes on average a year+ to research a new level in something, with half of my research going towards it. (I split between two researches at a time and just go down the list. I don't really specialize in SP as much as just do some of this and some of that. More I just want to see it all.) The nice thing about research is you can increase it very quickly. If your nation has even average researchers for a reasonable cost (aren't a top tier sacred unit that can only be built at your home province or something) you can triple or quadruple your research in under a year. For that reason, research takes a lower priority for me in the early game compared to: a) Getting heroes out there b) building troops c) capturing the surrounding provinces so I have some room to move and d) getting my guys on to Hall of Heroes list ASAP. In a 10 year game, a unit that got on the Hall of Heroes list in the first year is going to have GODLY stats for their perk. Like.....20+ magic resist, 35+ HP, 20+ Attack, Defense, ect.... It's how you can make a super combatant out of a low-tier commander.

3. Build order for me is usually 1. Best possible prophet, 2. Secondary Best Commander, 3. Best Mage, 4. Backup mages, repeat 2 - 4 until you've got a large enough army to roll through 5 provinces without stopping. (When I see more than a few enemy commanders on the Hall of Heroes, I start moving.) If your nation needs specific commander units (Reanmiators, Blood Hunters, Patrollers, what have you), that will change your build priorities.

For troops, that will come down to your nation but generally masses of cheap troops to start is preferable to smaller amounts of more expensive troops. Once you get those intial provinces captured, you start adding the elite troops to your existing ranks of weaker troops, until financially you can stop bothering with the weaker ones. (Again, SP here. I imagine in MP you get way more mileage out of weaker troops.)

[Puzzlemaker]

Thanks a ton for your help.  Looking forward to playing tonight!

[USEC_OFFICER]

I had horsemen that said they had two world move points, but I could only get them to move one.  How do I get them to move two?  I checked to make sure their armies all had two movement as well.

2 things:

1. Mixed unit armies use the lowest movement available I believe. So if you have a mounted commander and gave him unmounted body guards, the whole army will move at their speed.

2. Terrain types. W/o Forest or Mountain (or Hill?) Survival, fast moving ground troops move at 1 through difficult terrain. This includes moving into terrain. So if you're second move would take you into a forest, you have to end your movement before the forest.

Another thing to note is that (most of the time) map-move only counts between friendly provinces that you control. When attacking enemy provinces your army has to start adjacent to the enemy province. Exceptions exist, but they rarely apply to the average grunt (unless you're playing Caelum or something). I don't know if that is the exact problem you were running into, but it's something to be aware of.

[nenjin]

Another couple things to factor into your build order:

1. Guys to search for magic sites. I think you want at 3? in each path to guarantee you find most sites. This makes building a team (or a single unit) for site finding an expensive endeavor. I try to cover as many elements as possible with as many units as possible, to save on gems. This comes down to how diversified your nation's magic selection is. If you're stuck at 1 in a magic path, that's the best you can do and you'll have to start searching so you can build up enough gems to transmute them into gems for magic paths you don't have covered and upgrade. That whole process takes FOREVER. But it can't be ignored because gems are the lifeblood of magic items, summons, the good battle magic and global enchants.

2. Item forgers. If you're like me, you don't want to be constantly retasking your combat mages to make trinkets. So I always have at least 1, usually 2, dedicated forgers. In truth, a lot of items are only good for super combatants and they aren't absolutely necessary to succeed or win. Decking out commanders in full gear who are just going to sit behind their troops anyways is kind of a waste. But there are plenty of items you absolutely want to have. Research enhancing items, Leadership enhancing items, Supply Bonus and Magic Path/Spellcasting Enhancement items are all necessary to not struggle. Good robes will also keep your mages from dying to arrows and stupid stuff.

3. Dedicated mages. This is kind of a luxury of SP, but when I've whittled down an AI and am staring at their 300 unit defense force in their home province, I like to set up a mage to constantly bombard the province with spells to soften them up. Again, you might use existing combat mages, site finders or forgers to do this too since you've already invested in them, but as I said, I like not having to re-task people if I can help it because travel time sucks.

The order in which I listed them is the order in which I prioritize them. Site finders start happening for me once I've got 10 or so provinces under control and my armies are starting to capture the bulk of what will be the "homeland."

I don't know if that is the exact problem you were running into, but it's something to be aware of.

Yep. Enemy terrain counts as difficult terrain for everyone, even flying invisible scouts. You cannot mass move across hostile terrain.

[dennislp3]

I was wondering...if I put all my points into dominion bonuses at the start and just pump up my magic levels in game do I still get the bonuses? Besides the obvious more magic...doesn't it seem more beneficial to pump up Domain and have super buffs in your domain and just work up magic in the game?