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[TwilightWalker]

So, just how hard is  it to get into this? Me and a friend were looking to expand our 4x/Grand Strategy library after playing Fall From Heaven and several other games a few times. But we're unsure if we can get into playing  this with just how much  depth there is behind it, or if we're going to be stuck learning even how to play he game at its basics  for weeks on end.

[Toady Two]

I think Dominions is easy to get into (compared to something like DF) but difficult to master well enough to succeed in multiplayer.

You can start by playing multiplayer with your friend. It's a good way to learn since IMO multiplayer is the main focus of the game. Some people do play exclusively single player but I don't really get that since the AI can't even scratch the surface of the games strategic depth.

[chaoticag]

So, just how hard is  it to get into this? Me and a friend were looking to expand our 4x/Grand Strategy library after playing Fall From Heaven and several other games a few times. But we're unsure if we can get into playing  this with just how much  depth there is behind it, or if we're going to be stuck learning even how to play he game at its basics  for weeks on end.

There's a decent amount of depths and a ton of stuff to find out. I wouldn't say the game is difficult to get into, and the manual has a tutorial that it walks you through if you need it. It helps you get around the big barrier to playing the game, which is designing a god.

Once you're past that, I think there's a big chunk of exploring options. My advice is take it slow. This is a game you can play until you burn out on if you do decide to pick it up.

[Duuvian]

There is a free demo for Dom 3. You could try that, I don't think one for Dom 4 is out yet.

[Delta Foxtrot]

It's not too difficult to pick up. There's plenty of stuff that's quite different depending on whether you play MP or SP. That combined with the generally slow pace of MP means that practicing good ways to play mid- and especially late game can be difficult. I've found the AI to be perfectly reasonable to hone my early game skills, and to a lesser extent some early midgame strategies as well. I'm still in the stage where lategame against people is a real enigma to me. Doesn't really matter, I'm having fun finding out and dying horribly in the process.

There's usually a newbie game running in one place or another in the wide web so you can get your feet wet without getting you ass kicked by a seasoned veteran. There's a special team mode called "disciples" so you can play in a 2-player team with your friend against other people in a 2v2 (v2v2v2) format. Of if you're more of a SP/coop players, you can do a 2v10 against AIs for some horde smashing.

There are a few community made guides and tutorials for pretender creation and other things. I think they do a decent job at helping people get started.

[Frumple]

Heh. Point of minor correction: Disciples teams can be... arbitrarily large, so far as I'm aware. Not just two folks. You could have a 6v6 match or something along those lines fairly easily. The B12 one is currently rocking 4x3 -- four teams of three players. Definitely a very different sort of beast.

[lijacote]

It'd be interesting to try a game with asymmetrical teams -- not necessarily that each player is designated a steam per se, but that there'd be multiple wholes competing for victory. Like 3vs2vs2vs2 or anything like that. You could tie interesting scenario rules to such things, like with that one Something Awful LP with the Good nations and the Evil nations all competing with each other while trying to achieve a Good or Evil victory. I'd like something like that. Could be hard if discipleless pretenders can't have Prophets.

[E. Albright]

If a nation is on a team of one/not on a team in a disciple game, they can have a prophet. They can't choose a low-dom pretender, but otherwise they play like a normal nation.

[lijacote]

We're looking to replace a player in 4.06, and it's Yomi. It's Yomi in an early war. The bad thing is that it's very difficult, at least theoretically (who knows what Yomi has hidden in their cap), the good thing is that if it goes horribly wrong, it won't last too long.

[Karlito]

The same player is Marignon in 4.07, and it's still pretty early on, if anyone wants to step up.

[lijacote]

I could take that one. MA Marignon is cool. The games I'm in are much too slow for a vagrant, jobless slob such as I am.

[E. Albright]

Patch is out.

Spoiler: Changelog for Version 4.07 (taken from IW site) (click to show/hide)

This update adds a new version called Ragha to the late era and also updates Caelum in all eras. There are also a lot of bug fixes and various new features.

Game
New nation called Ragha
Caelum nations have got some new/altered units, equipment, descriptions and sites
Ice Crafting for MA Caelum
Ice Lances have charge ability
Many new Pretenders for Caelum and Abysia
New Summons for Caelum/Ragha
New national spells for Caelum/Ragha
Can only blood sacrifice in own lands
Just Man's Cross is now armor piercing
Event fixes and new events
Could transform into a ... with Transformation ritual
Awe now printed among bless effects
Never healing wound now gives -20% of start HP instead of -20% of modified HP
Chi Kick is now a bonus weapon
Improved error detection for map loading
Fixed unit2com inconsistency bug when viewing casualty reports
Increased chance of getting the better divine titles
New divine titles
HTML status page divided by teams
Smooth scrolling for GUI
Fliers get size*2 as charge damage if it exceeds the old AP/3
Added 2048*1152 and 2880*1800 screen resolutions.
Fixed undefined behaviour in CRC caclulation
Typos fixed
High level Thrones didn't spread more dominion
'l' to send item to lab didn't work properly
Wraith Lord from Ghost Riders looked wrong
Crystal Throne and Throne of Knowledge had wrong dominions spread
Reduced chance of starting behind rivers or mountain passes
Tainted Presence affliction
Transformed priests could not be blessed
Unclaiming of thrones now happens before victory and before income
Bless effects were not always removed when losing a throne
Set name of home province even on maps with fixed province names
Fixed UW shark knight defence
Removal of smouldercones that could be created by incorrect random events in 4.05
Don't print 'army routed' for Vengeance of the Dead
Wrong popup text for Dispel ritual
Helheim can no longer trace income across oceans
Special random names for wastes and farm coasts.
More random province names
Random maps with <500 provinces will never have any duplicate names.
Tower of the Moon changed to summon Dire Wolves
Serpent King got nature 1 in snake form too
Innate Spellcasters skipped every other scripted spell
Events can yield horror marks
Select unit shows more of the more interesting targets and at least 2
Floating units were not immune to Earth Attack
Lure of the Deep could crash the game
Battle log details for Ethereal, luck, etc.
Non artifact items can be unique
Poison from poison dagger ignored etherealness
Improved spell info for some spells
Lance is now before second weapon
Population capped at 300000
Enchantment and dispel strength was calculated incorrectly
Tome of High Power boosts ritual range
Ichtytaur had wrong shape change
Arcane Nexus got more basic income
Acorn Neclace shockres 5 -> 15
Ice forging icon
Multiple secondary spell effects works now
Communion slave/master icons
Ambdextrous icon
New monster: Flame Spirit
Magic for some secondary shapes for gift of reason purpose
Raiding could crash the game
Trade Wind could be cast on non coastal provinces
No items found in messages for defeating sneaking enemy
Wrong message when a third party fights outside a castle
Added missing description for Cleansing Chime
Certain effects (e.g. blood vengeance) are no longer affected by mirror image
Reinvigoration now removes all (up to 200) fatigue
Burning ground should look correct on fast forward now
Shape changing back to original form after battle didn't work
'c' to view combat spells only
'g' to view globals only
Can no longer yank Monument with harpoon
Ziz couldn't fly during storms
Give pretender capital as home province
Shapechange starting pretenders if necessary
More + info on spells
Improved popup info for storm power
Heroes get capital as home province
Improved pluralisation of unit names
Red warning when having an impossible throne setting
New start options for random maps: --mapdscol, --mapccol
Air Bless gives range bonus
Slave Markets and some other sites are less common
Fix for slow rec with limited resources
Vine Bow now has on hit effect instead of on damage
Black bow of Botulf now affects on damage
Some magic bows got 1 increase in damage
Units without headslots didn't die from soulslay
Monster fish can damage large targets
Icons for dominion scale changing effects
More likely to use gems against small armies of only mages
Some spells will never be cast unless scripted (communions + VoR)
Improved battle log details
3rd player assassins could assassinate besieged units too
Items of enslaved commanders have a chance of being found now
Gelatinous Cube now got an Acid Splash defensive ability
Swallow on trample no longer swallows those who evade the trample
Vile Water ritual cost 8 -> 4
New Worm Mage sprite

AI
Don't charge with centaur archers
AI can now upgrade forts
Spell AI less likely to target immobilized units

Modding
Automatic mod downloading of mods in network games
New sitch: --nodownlmods to skip automatic mod download
Improved mod error checking
New nation mod commands: #cavenation, #coastnation
Changed names to #restricteditem and #userestricteditem
Removing a secondary path from an existing spell made it unchoosable
Fixed random priest level
Command #undeadonly didn't work
New commands: #guardspirt, #guardspiritbonus, #restricted, #userestricted
Mod sanity check button to check for missing files

[USEC_OFFICER]

Caelum nations have got some new/altered units, equipment, descriptions and sites
Ice Crafting for MA Caelum
Ice Lances have charge ability
Many new Pretenders for Caelum and Abysia
New Summons for Caelum/Ragha
New national spells for Caelum/Ragha

Excellent... *rubs hands with glee*

Of course the Dom 4 Inspector doesn't have the new patch yet, so I can't see the new nation or any of the Caelum changes yet, but the Ice Lancers having charge fills me with glee. It should give the Caelum infantry a good punch in combat and help in expansion.

EDIT: I just remembered that the charge ability is based off of AP, and Caelum's units have absolutely terrible AP. Like, 9 at most _{Except for MA's Wingless} and 4~9 encumbrance to boot. So charge on the lances aren't going to help too much. Unless the unit tweaks affected AP/Encumbrance of course.

[E. Albright]

Fliers get size*2 as charge damage if it exceeds the old AP/3

So twice as good for an AP9 birdie.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Ah. I didn't catch that. And 9 AP is the maximum. I'm pretty sure that some of them go lower than that. _{And now to create a nation of size-6 fliers for maximum justice.}