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[chaoticag]

Yup, defender gets the first turn, then the attacker. Use this to your advantage when possible.

[Delta Foxtrot]

I just lost a decisive battle to an opening move of mass flight that wiped out most of my rear-most mages

Pfft, amateurs. I'd have combo'd that with a couple of earthquakes! But seriously, don't attack lategame armies unless you know you can withstand their arcane opening barrages.

Is it always the defender that gets the first turn of a battle?

Defender goes first. A String of single (suicide) mages with the right paths can do terrible things to an invading army.

[Radsoc]

Yes yes, it was bad, I was under the delirious impression that the attacker got the initiative and the first move, but this is my first late game and I get to learn the hard way. There are many rules to keep track of. I knew he would use mass flight, but even if I had cast storm he would get his troops there quick enough. I read somewhere that there's a check when flying over formations, and that the more there are the harder it gets. I put a brave Hoburg detachment and vine men with my mages. But they really got behind my rearmost units with ease. When I finally got to cast fog warriors, it was already too late. With the mages gone, and my only real edge, it turned into a slaughter.

But I found out that golems with area effects are really effective. A heavily armored, ethereal, high-MR golem armed with a carmine cleaver, took 20% of all kills, mostly high-hp units, before going down. They kept the enemies busy enough to wipe out the entire set of enemy communion slaves due to fatigue as well.

[chaoticag]

Why carmine cleaver though? Golems are best with something like *brands against armies, the cleaver or morningstar of heroes is best against thugs. A *brand plus a vineshield would have been a better equipment option. I also stack on the astral shield if what I'm up against is not mindless. If you can make or trade for them, shadow brands are also absolutely great due to a larger area of effect.

[E. Albright]

Also, a hard counter to turn-1 Mass Flight is a Staff of Storms (or Tempest).

[ThtblovesDF]

I just throw piles of trash (spirits for example) in the back and hope for the best

[Frumple]

Why carmine cleaver though?

Maybe the fire shield effect? If you've got access to carmine cleavers, though, you've almost certainly got access to charcoal shields, too, so if you're after that you'd want a brand (or whatev') and the shield instead...

Still, path and gem limitations are a thing, and the carmine is fire shield plus some AoE (via heat) for a little less than a firebrand+charcoal shield (2f1e vs 3e2f, gem wise, so 15 vs 25). Maybe that's all they could manage?

[Shadowlord]

Fire shield has never seemed all that effective to me - For general army-fighting, I'd rather take a shield that gives some crowd control.

[Frumple]

I've seen it basically eat like 2-300 unit armies, more or less on its own. It's no petrification, but it's pretty good vs human or lower HP chaff. I do still prioritize other effects, m'self, but so long as what you're using it against isn't particularly resistant to it (one way or another) it's pretty good.

[ThtblovesDF]

So is anyone intrested in starting another game of this? Round 21 I assume?

Edit: We need a host, too.

[chaoticag]

Well, still in round 20 but willing. I'll pass admin duty to someone else.

[Karlito]

It's summer and I've got some time to play, so yeah I'd be interested.

[Jilladilla]

Count me in!

[Cheeetar]

If we're talking a normal game, I'm interested in a round 21.

[PrimusRibbus]

I'm on the fence about joining a game at the moment, but I'd for sure put my name in the hat as a sub.